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Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    You know what would make that even better? if they slapped some tax increases onto the rich. Then we could actually have a real conservative budget instead of a pretend conservative budget which still spends lavishly and wastefully on the rich. hey, if we all have to buckle our belts and pay down our debt then the rich can tone down their spending too.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Both sides are very vague on where their portion is coming from. Neither side plans to give anything up. The concept of centrism and compromise has been completely lost.

    Just for fun, from Intrade:
    The US debt limit to be raised before midnight ET 31 Dec 2012
    33.6%
    CHANCE
    Last prediction was: $3.36 / share
    Today's Change: -$2.00 (-37.3%)

    Looks like fewer and fewer people think we'll find a solution. Our politicians are really letting us down.
    I could be wrong, but aren't the debt ceiling and the fiscal cliff two different things? I know democrats want to lump the debt ceiling in with the fiscal cliff, but a deal could get done on the debt ceiling and not on the fiscal cliff (or the other way around)...

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    I'm glad to see the liberals on the forum hate the idea of cutting the deficit 2.2 trillion over 10 years including 800b in new tax revenue; maybe now we can just realize obama wants to send the nation into a depression after all by leaping over this mythical cliff.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The difference being the Democrat's plan asks more of the rich as opposed to the GOP's plan to ask more of the middle class and seniors.
    Ah.

    Firstly: I almost wish they would. Just as Republicans were the first party to come clean and be honest with the American people about the need to grab the third rail, someone needs to come clean and let the American people know that we already have the most progressive income tax structure in the industrialized world. The oh-so-sacrosanct middle class isn't paying for the benefits it wants, and we need to be honest that all things come with a price tag.

    Secondly: Sort of Bitter-Sweetly, this charge of yours is (as near as I can tell) incorrect. Perhaps you can demonstrate to me where you are getting this from.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    You know what would make that even better? if they slapped some tax increases onto the rich. Then we could actually have a real conservative budget instead of a pretend conservative budget which still spends lavishly and wastefully on the rich.
    Actually you will notice that the Republican proposal includes reducing expenditures on the wealthy - particularly in the form of entitlements. Which is as it should be - millionaires do not need Social Security or Medicare.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Another day, another idea...

    From The New York Times:

    Democratic luminaries with ties to the Obama and Clinton administrations, including two former Treasury secretaries and two former White House chiefs of staff, on Tuesday will enter the tax debate with an overhaul plan that would raise an additional $1.8 trillion in the first decade.

    That is $200 billion more than President Obama has proposed and $1 trillion more than Republicans in Congress support. It would mostly result from a simplification of the tax code that produces higher taxes from the wealthy, but would also involve higher taxes on cigarettes, alcoholic beverages and Internet gambling that would hit people of all incomes.
    Debt Reckoning: The Fiscal Deadline in Washington - NYTimes.com

    The actual plan can be found at: http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-c...eportFINAL.pdf

    Although this plan claims $4.1 trillion in deficit reduction, a closer examination reveals that part of this figure includes $1.5 trillion in savings already enacted (see p.21). Therefore, the actual new deficit reduction would come to $2.6 trillion.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    while i realize that we are watching the goalposts being set, our two political parties are acting like caricatures of themselves.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    You know what would make that even better? if they slapped some tax increases onto the rich. Then we could actually have a real conservative budget instead of a pretend conservative budget which still spends lavishly and wastefully on the rich. hey, if we all have to buckle our belts and pay down our debt then the rich can tone down their spending too.
    Not taking money != "Spending" money.

    You may disagree that we shouldn't tax people more, but at least use correct verbage here. An individual's money is their own. The government has the power to TAX, not the power to "grant you your money". They have the legal ability to TAKE your money, which inherently means that initially it's YOUR money. Having the government take less of it is not the government "Spending" money.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    And this is why things aren't going to work. Neither side actually wants to negotiate and find a middle ground.

    Republicans come to the table with:

    1) Increases to revenue by effectively raising taxes
    2) Increased burden placed on the rich by way of entitlement reform
    3) Spending CUTS to go with revenue INCREASES for a BALANCED approach of dealing with our debt

    And naturally, that gets cut down and derided because we're not actually looking for a balacned approach with the debt. It's just a game of which side can better demonize the other and get their point across. At this point, it's "raise the income tax rate on 'the rich' or we fail" for the Democrats.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    If you just look at available income, of all forms including interest gains, capital gains, etc:

    AGI's between $1 and $200,000 = 6.007 trillion
    AGI's over $200,000 = 2.273 trillion.

    Lumping all forms of taxation, taxes paid:

    AGI's between $1 and $200,000 = 498 billion
    AGI's over $200,000 = 500 billion


    How much more do you think you can squeeze out of the "top"?

    Note: All data from IRS.gov historical tables 2010

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