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Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

  1. #191
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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lots of what you say is true

    but a real handicap to kids is not wealth but parents (one usually is all they have for those who end up failures) who are sucking on the public teat. I know lots of wealthy people. some of their kids end up being trustafarian losers, others feel guilty about wealth and end up being loopy lefties trying to do penance for their good fortune. Others end up using the fact that they don't have to worry about paying for school to do really really well. and some of them take jobs they can afford to do because they are wealthy like the headmaster of my old prep school who never took a dime of salary but rather had the school use his pay to fund kids who couldn't pay the bill or another guy i knew who was from the family that owned one of the largest businesses in SW Ohio who got his MBA from a top school and decided he'd rather be an Episcopal priest and did that instead. After he retired he started teaching business ethics at a local university. He was highly respected as both a priest and a professor
    all of what I said is true....
    re the parents thing....yes, I had 2 parents, they were the worst kind of democrats/liberals, uneducated, didn't care if their kids got an education, basically wanted all of their kids to fail equally. The 2 of us that stood out, based on work ethic, personal effort, etc. were the 2 that mom resented. She was actually jealous of us for getting more schooling than she got, which was 3rd grade. In her defense, she had a rough life, but that is not much of an excuse for making 5 kids in a loveless marriage, and then taking out her frustrations on her kids.
    LSS, one sister and I made it pretty far up the success ladder. And there were NO government handouts to be had for us. Our other sibling were either slow learners, lazy, or both, and just settled. I have little sympathy for those who put forth only minimal effort in their own behalf. But I have zero respect for those born into wealth, giving them a great head start, and then try to tell me how their kind of success can be achieved by anybody....
    Seems some of those who were born into wealth want to keep the "riff raff" out of their private club, and do their best to further handicap those with little or no advantage in life.
    I don't resent all the wealthy, just those who have had it too easy and then disparage the efforts of the "lesser folk"...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  2. #192
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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more appeals to the masses based on the specious concept that truth is based only a popularity vote.

    you also continually ignore the fact that the poor and the middle class are also paying far less than they did in prior years and their share of the burden is lower than at any time in modern history. YET they are the ones who drive the spending because politicians pander to numbers of votes.


    The middle class and the poor are paying less because they have less. AS we found in the election, the majority no longer see any reason to continue to allow the tax cuts for the wealthy to continue.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    The wealthy pay a different FICA tax rate? Please expound on this assertion...thx

    Deja Vu with Dickieboy, again. Yes, investment earnings are exempt from FiCA taxes, so those like Romney who get all their income from investments, do not have to pay FICA taxes.

    And those that do have some income subject to FICA, only have to pay on the portion of their income that is under $105,000, unlike the middle class who must pay FICA on 100% of their income.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    ? Is someone currently suggesting someone else should be paying?
    Yes, that was the choice in the election, who would be paying more, the rich or the middle class.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #195
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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, that was the choice in the election, who would be paying more, the rich or the middle class.
    I agree. The voters chose Republicans to control taxes. They dont want anyone to pay more.

    Section. 7.

    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives

  6. #196
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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, that was the choice in the election, who would be paying more, the rich or the middle class.
    Perhaps you did not notice, but that 2012 election ballot included all of the House and 1/3 of the Senate as well as the president. What the people said was for DC to lead/govern/change, get its act together and stop the constant borrow and spend madness. The rich already pay much more FIT than the middle class, and the "poor" now pay next to nothing or get a gov't check.

    What demorats/republicants now fear is returning to the Clinton tax rates, that Obama said that he liked so much, which will raise federal revenue about 1% of GDP but the federal gov't now spends 4% of GDP more than it did under Bush. Bush did not "cut taxes for the rich" as Obama is so want to imply, Bush cut taxes for everyone, in fact, the bottom bracket rate was cut by 50%, from 15% to 10% - that is a fact. Taxation got more progressive under the Bush rates, not less.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Perhaps you did not notice, but that 2012 election ballot included all of the House and 1/3 of the Senate as well as the president. What the people said was for DC to lead/govern/change, get its act together and stop the constant borrow and spend madness. The rich already pay much more FIT than the middle class, and the "poor" now pay next to nothing or get a gov't check.

    What demorats/republicants now fear is returning to the Clinton tax rates, that Obama said that he liked so much, which will raise federal revenue about 1% of GDP but the federal gov't now spends 4% of GDP more than it did under Bush. Bush did not "cut taxes for the rich" as Obama is so want to imply, Bush cut taxes for everyone, in fact, the bottom bracket rate was cut by 50%, from 15% to 10% - that is a fact. Taxation got more progressive under the Bush rates, not less.

    Thanks for the morning humor, ttwtt!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Deja Vu with Dickieboy, again. Yes, investment earnings are exempt from FiCA taxes, so those like Romney who get all their income from investments, do not have to pay FICA taxes.

    And those that do have some income subject to FICA, only have to pay on the portion of their income that is under $105,000, unlike the middle class who must pay FICA on 100% of their income.
    Deja Vu with Catawba again...Avoiding the specific question...So you are proposing we impose a FICA tax on investment earning? Did Romney not pay FICA AT THE SAME RATE on the +/-$350k he earned making speeches? His tax return indicated that he did...and yes he paid FICA on all that earned up to $105k...just like the middle class folks who earn up to the $200-250k level that is commonly claimed to be the upper limit of the 'middle class'...unlike how?

    deja vu indeed....
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, that was the choice in the election, who would be paying more, the rich or the middle class.
    Confused again...didn't you say this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No one is suggesting the wealthy pay for every thing...
    Which I questioned WHO ELSE was proposed to paying more...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Deja Vu with Catawba again...Avoiding the specific question...So you are proposing we impose a FICA tax on investment earning? Did Romney not pay FICA AT THE SAME RATE on the +/-$350k he earned making speeches? His tax return indicated that he did...and yes he paid FICA on all that earned up to $105k...just like the middle class folks who earn up to the $200-250k level that is commonly claimed to be the upper limit of the 'middle class'...unlike how?

    deja vu indeed....

    My point was that those wealthy like Romney, who's income is primarily from investments pay a far less percentage of their total income on FICA than do median income workers.

    I will repost for your benefit the simple fix for fixing SS long term, beyond the 26 remaining years of solvency:

    "Back in 1983, the ceiling was set so the Social Security payroll tax would hit 90 percent of all wages covered by Social Security. That 90 percent figure was built into the Greenspan Commission's fixes. The Commission assumed that, as the ceiling rose with inflation, the Social Security payroll tax would continue to hit 90 percent of total income.

    Today, though, the Social Security payroll tax hits only about 84 percent of total income.

    It went from 90 percent to 84 percent because a larger and larger portion of total income has gone to the top. In 1983, the richest 1 percent of Americans got 11.6 percent of total income. Today the top 1 percent takes in more than 20 percent.

    If we want to go back to 90 percent, the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security tax would need to be raised to $180,000.

    Presto. Social Security's long-term (beyond 26 years from now) problem would be solved."

    Robert Reich: Budget Baloney: Why Social Security Isn't a Problem for 26 Years, and the Best Way to Fix It Permanently
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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