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Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What did the president spend the 3 trillion on that you claim was unnecessary. What spending would you have cut that he didn't? And what would you have done to increase revenues?
    Now we are getting somewhere... we can talk about the issues now rather than blaming someone...

    I think there are a lot of individuals who should not be getting social security and medicare as they do not need it (they are well off enough to survive without it)...

    I think we should have come home day 1 from Iraq and Afghanistan, not stayed on pretty much the Bush Timeline.

    I think we should have and still should pay congressmen and senators (along with the president and VP) 1 dollar per year, like many CEO's in 2008-9 took...

    I think we should make the congress and president's benefit package the same as the worst benefits package in America.

    I think we should stop subsidizing farmers to not plant farm land when we are seeing food prices rise.

    I think it's BS that the two wealthiest counties in the us Are suburbs of Washington DC.

    I think we should have a website that draws connections to lobbyist funds and votes that will help those lobbyists. Showing the congressmen, senators and presidents what they take and how they lean and how they vote...

    I think we should look into the future rather than the past year to look how to pay for what we spent aka fiscal cliff. Something called plan for the future or budget...

    There are a lot of things that I would do differently than how Obama did them... Would I have run a deficit over what could be blamed on bush, very likely.... Would I continue to ignore our over 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities and add more liabilities to the mix... no way..

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    No Doctor is legally obligated to accept Medicare rates. So, I'll find out the hard way what reality is. I believe that Medicare suffers mostly from the ABSENCE of "Death Panels" and the biggest investment is in the last month of life. This may ned to be re-examined. I know that sounds pretty cold but is it realistic to spend a million dollars giving Grandpa another 30 days? I've just ben through this with my own Father who got a new pacemaker when he was 99 and died at 100. I loved him dearly and in some ways appreciated the extra time but I saw him suffer in that last month and a heart attack would have been a mercy.

    Taxes will surely need to rise and at a certain wealth level and or income level, benefits will have to be removed. Just guessing of course but I bet you that Mitt Romney and Specklebang get identical SS checks. He needs it not at all and while I appreciate it, I could do with half of what I get (just as my ex and some of my tenants get). It's quite a conflict.

    Farm land sounds really good. If I didn't live in the desert, I'd probably take your advice. Locking in these ridiculously low interest rates is also a darn good idea.

    SS needs to be individulaized or at least the retirement age needs raising and the disability claims need tightening. Another Sacerd Cow unfortunately so don't look for a solutio anytime soon on this....
    Doctors just won't see medicare patients so, only those with private insurance and medicare will get health care... That's why I do not get how this whole we can cut costs in medicare via paying doctors less, sure, you can... but the won't see the patients any longer... So you might as well just remove all medicare at that point...

    NO need to live near the farm land you can lease it out to farmers... I don't mean become a farmer I just mean invest in farm land... I still haven't figured out the best way, but a buddy of mine has bought a few farms for pretty cheap via auctions and I think I'm going to start to get into it... As I said I think there are tough times ahead, and it is in those tough times I hope to buy some land... When you think to yourself there is no way I'm ever going to buy land things are getting too bad, that's when you should buy, as that's likely the bottom...

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    stop the nonsense-we are talking about the top 2% not the Idle rich. I don't know what that means-all the rich people I know work hard.
    I guess it is hard work trying all day every day to get more than the next filthy rich guy on the Forbes 400 list.
    That kind of life can not be enjoyable.
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What I love is how people conveniently ignore the fact that the only viable alternative to the President said the withdrawal was rash, and how people ignore that the majority of Democrats voted against the war compared to the GOP of which almost every single member voted for the war.
    McCain said we would be there for 100 years and Bush always said the "timetable" would be determined by conditions on the ground. All dates were tenative under Bush and there is no doubt we would still have troops there if McCain was elected. And Bin Laden would still be sitting pretty in Pakistan. McCain also promised that.
    Republican administratons are just as incapable of ending wars as they are at cutting deficits.
    Now they can't even get behind a treaty that their own party was responsible for writing. Besides wars, tax cuts and "entitlement" sabotage what are Republicans really FOR anymore? They appear to have lost their way.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 12-05-12 at 12:48 AM.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Actually, Medicare is insurance in itself. You can get your services direct, you can buy a "Medicare Advantage" plan which basically covers all your costs other than co-pays, HMO versions and "supplements". If you buy a supplement, I think the Doctor can charge you whatever he wants and you have no co-pays. These of course are the most expensive plans, about $200 a month. All the other plans pay only what Medicare pays. As this gets lower, fewer Doctors will take it but I think mostly they'll take it but process you very quickly. I've only had one Dr. who didn't take Medicare and another surgeon who opted out a year ago. But so far, most places still take it and slough you off on the PAs, which I personally don't mind at all.

    What do you do with farm land while you're waiting for appreciation? Do you rent t out? Is sharecropping back in style? I assume it must be occupied to maintain, well, some kind of order, fire prevention etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    Doctors just won't see medicare patients so, only those with private insurance and medicare will get health care... That's why I do not get how this whole we can cut costs in medicare via paying doctors less, sure, you can... but the won't see the patients any longer... So you might as well just remove all medicare at that point...

    NO need to live near the farm land you can lease it out to farmers... I don't mean become a farmer I just mean invest in farm land... I still haven't figured out the best way, but a buddy of mine has bought a few farms for pretty cheap via auctions and I think I'm going to start to get into it... As I said I think there are tough times ahead, and it is in those tough times I hope to buy some land... When you think to yourself there is no way I'm ever going to buy land things are getting too bad, that's when you should buy, as that's likely the bottom...

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I guess it is hard work trying all day every day to get more than the next filthy rich guy on the Forbes 400 list.
    That kind of life can not be enjoyable.
    Honestly, I've always felt sorry for the ultra-rich. No peace and quiet, dressing up all the time and faking smiles, choosing which cr to drive today and think about your yacht and if you should pick up a mansion in Hong Kong. All your "friends" are either as detached as you are or really just taking part in the long term mooch. I knew one ultra-rich guy who owned a casino in Laas Vegas. He traveled with bodyguards. What fun.

    I think you and the TurtleMan are clashing over whatever rich is. Lots of people are rich. They have a house, a car, cool toys, vacations and plenty of hard work. They're NOT the filthy rich though. Those guys have undue influence over our politicians and our society. For the most part, a large portion of the PROPOSED tax change will fall on them dollar wise and they'll only have a few billion left. Oh, the HORROR.

    Also, rich is in the mind of the beholder. I view myself as rich. I have a paid for house, car, cats, a source of enough income and some money in the bank. If I won the lottery, my lifestyle wouldn't change one iota.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Very valid points. But this isn't about Obama. This corruption and waste is endemic in American politics. There are many ways money could be saved but those who benefit from excess spending are the favored ones.

    I most agree that Congress should not receive great rewards. We don't pay police much, it;s partly the honor of serving and protecting. I think being a politician should be a sacrifice, done for love of country, not the cushy lifetime pensions and other bennies nobody else gets. You'd see a very different, more humble, more concerned crowd in the halls of Congress. Instead, it's just Hollywood for Ugly People.

    The wars ae pretty much done. No doubt, the lights are burning late at the MIC looking for some way to create shareholder value. They'll probably get what they want. A trillion her, a trillion there, before you know it you've got serious money.



    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    Now we are getting somewhere... we can talk about the issues now rather than blaming someone...

    I think there are a lot of individuals who should not be getting social security and medicare as they do not need it (they are well off enough to survive without it)...

    I think we should have come home day 1 from Iraq and Afghanistan, not stayed on pretty much the Bush Timeline.

    I think we should have and still should pay congressmen and senators (along with the president and VP) 1 dollar per year, like many CEO's in 2008-9 took...

    I think we should make the congress and president's benefit package the same as the worst benefits package in America.

    I think we should stop subsidizing farmers to not plant farm land when we are seeing food prices rise.

    I think it's BS that the two wealthiest counties in the us Are suburbs of Washington DC.

    I think we should have a website that draws connections to lobbyist funds and votes that will help those lobbyists. Showing the congressmen, senators and presidents what they take and how they lean and how they vote...

    I think we should look into the future rather than the past year to look how to pay for what we spent aka fiscal cliff. Something called plan for the future or budget...

    There are a lot of things that I would do differently than how Obama did them... Would I have run a deficit over what could be blamed on bush, very likely.... Would I continue to ignore our over 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities and add more liabilities to the mix... no way..

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I guess it is hard work trying all day every day to get more than the next filthy rich guy on the Forbes 400 list.
    That kind of life can not be enjoyable.
    Living for how many toys bragging rights whatever you can get......must suck. I honestly feel soory for those people.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Actually, Medicare is insurance in itself. You can get your services direct, you can buy a "Medicare Advantage" plan which basically covers all your costs other than co-pays, HMO versions and "supplements". If you buy a supplement, I think the Doctor can charge you whatever he wants and you have no co-pays. These of course are the most expensive plans, about $200 a month. All the other plans pay only what Medicare pays. As this gets lower, fewer Doctors will take it but I think mostly they'll take it but process you very quickly. I've only had one Dr. who didn't take Medicare and another surgeon who opted out a year ago. But so far, most places still take it and slough you off on the PAs, which I personally don't mind at all.

    What do you do with farm land while you're waiting for appreciation? Do you rent t out? Is sharecropping back in style? I assume it must be occupied to maintain, well, some kind of order, fire prevention etc.
    Yeah my point towards doctors not seeing medicare patients is once the cuts go through that have to do with obamacare...

    As for farm land, you lease it out to farmers... It's like owning a dividend stock... You get paid to wait... I haven't looked too much into buying this land yet, but I think it's really one of the better investments one could make over the near future...

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Very valid points. But this isn't about Obama. This corruption and waste is endemic in American politics. There are many ways money could be saved but those who benefit from excess spending are the favored ones.

    I most agree that Congress should not receive great rewards. We don't pay police much, it;s partly the honor of serving and protecting. I think being a politician should be a sacrifice, done for love of country, not the cushy lifetime pensions and other bennies nobody else gets. You'd see a very different, more humble, more concerned crowd in the halls of Congress. Instead, it's just Hollywood for Ugly People.

    The wars ae pretty much done. No doubt, the lights are burning late at the MIC looking for some way to create shareholder value. They'll probably get what they want. A trillion her, a trillion there, before you know it you've got serious money.
    Ha I love to debate politics but when it comes down to this stuff it's like common sense. The problem is there is so much money at stake keeping us from changing that it makes it very difficult..

    Hence my solution on a website... This doesn't sound like much but if you make a lobbyist register every point they are trying to lobby for, you link money given to politicians and you show how much that money effects them to the public you remove all power that money ever had...

    The thing that bothers me most is that there are so many wealthy people who come out of the Washington DC area, because there is so much money involved with this whole game... I'm glad it attracts brilliant minds, but we get into these battles, as I'm sure you've read these threads of chess matches of how we can make the other side look bad, rather than what are the real issues at hand and how can we solve them...

    As for wars and defense spending, if you notice few states ever ask to reduce defense spending, liberal states will say they are against wars but never vote to reduce defense spending, there is a reason for that... the defense spending goes to all states, provides industry in all states... It's something we need to discuss as a nation, are these jobs, jobs to create war ships and bombs and military equipment needed, or can we find a better use for these funds for these workers, for these factories... Imagine if we built things that we could sell around the world, and this money actually had some use other than to employ people it actually generated a return and was self sustaining... That's the kind of budget I'd be looking at... We need to find ways to transfer these factories...

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