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Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Didn't say there were. Tax increases won't create jobs either. I am approaching this from a long-term view and the growing debt is going to be a huge problem about the time a lot of our social programs reach critical mass, but we also have the short-term problem of jobs and discretionary spending. Neither side has even scratched the surface IMHO. If I were POTUS, I would take a 6 month extension deal, and flood the Congress with specific meaningful reforms that are more substantive than the bar graph shell game to prove who has the bigger wiener.
    Tax increases will create jobs if it allows more money to be spent on jobs programs. Social Security and Medicare are solvent for years, there is no rush to fix them when our economy is still weak. We can wait unitl unemployment drops and revenues are at a norm. What happened to jobs being number one? Forgot Romney said that?

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Tax increases will create jobs if it allows more money to be spent on jobs programs. Social Security and Medicare are solvent for years, there is no rush to fix them when our economy is still weak. We can wait unitl unemployment drops and revenues are at a norm. What happened to jobs being number one? Forgot Romney said that?
    I voted for Romney because of Benghazi. No other reason except maybe a dead aunt used to love him when he was her Governor and she was poor so I knew all that 47% crap was bull. If you want to create jobs, you have to get businesses eye off stock manipulation. To do that, you have to put in some market reforms that limits companies ability to trade in their own stock, tax the hell out of revenues created off trades executed by computer algorithms, limit commissions/fees, etc. It has the added benefit of cracking down in wild mutual fund swings of value IMHO. That is one step. I do not profess to know them all. As long as there is more emphasis in boardrooms on stock revenue than operating revenue, there will be no new jobs to speak of.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    It is a false choice. Obama will not negotiate because he cannot negotiate--he does not control the democrats in the senate. He had to take what they would give him on healthcare, not what he wanted. If he truly controlled the Senate, he could easily pick off enough votes to raise the taxes just by being creative in what he was offering to rural district GOP members in the House. As is, there is no way for him to guarantee them anything he could promise to them. Taxes should be raised, but there needs to be cuts that House members can use for cover. For instance, carve out some family farm exceptions to the cap gains and estate tax stuff and a member of a rural district can say I protected farmers not billionaires. Right now this thing is nothing more than an ego-driven pissing match on both sides and there is no reason for it, but both sides have to put down their gun to end the Mexican standoff. Neither will, which is why we will be hitting the fiscal pothole IMHO.
    Obama got health care reform because he was willing compromise, to go with the conservative's idea of an insurance mandate, instead of just insisting on a single payer plan that he preferred.

    The Senate has already passed the extension of the middle class tax cuts. The House refusal to do likewise they do at their political peril, not to mention the harm it will do to the economy.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Obama got health care reform because he was willing compromise, to go with the conservative's idea of an insurance mandate, instead of just insisting on a single payer plan that he preferred.
    Compromise with who? The GOP had too little leverage in '08 to require compromise...unless you can support such an assertion...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Obama got health care reform because he was willing compromise, to go with the conservative's idea of an insurance mandate, instead of just insisting on a single payer plan that he preferred.

    The Senate has already passed the extension of the middle class tax cuts. The House refusal to do likewise they do at their political peril, not to mention the harm it will do to the economy.
    This is exactly what I am talking about. That is nothing more than BS partisan rhetoric. The GOP maintained the House when Obama rode to a huge victory and the House has a 7% approval rating. Presidential coattails don't mean squat when most CD's are pretty red CD's these days. A farmer in North Carolina worries more about his farm in NC than he does tax plans for the rich and famous.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Senate has already passed the extension of the middle class tax cuts. The House refusal to do likewise they do at their political peril, not to mention the harm it will do to the economy.
    Seems some on 'your side of the isle' disagree:

    On the other hand, a growing number of Democrats -- Howard Dean included -- are arguing that we ought to go "over the cliff" as planned. Cut spending and let the tax cuts expire, they argue. This will undoubtably hurt the economy in the short term, but these proponents argue it is necessary to inflict some pain in the short term in order to get our fiscal house in order.
    Howard Dean: Let's Go Over the Fiscal Cliff | Think Tank | Big Think

    Wouldn't surprise me if this wasn’t the plan by BOTH sides all along…the rest has just been political theatre.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    For the first part. Tarp we made a profit on... $24 billion TARP
    For the Wars, I'm using a cost of $3 trillion divided over the period of 2003-2012... or $300 Billion a year that's $1.2 Trillion for 4 years..
    For stimulus I'm using:
    February 2009: Obama stimulus $787 billion in broad stimulus package
    February 2009: Obama stimulus $75 billion for distressed homeowners
    February 2009: Obama stimulus $200 billion for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
    March 2009: Obama stimulus $30 billion for AIG
    March 2009: Obama Stimulus $15 billion for small business lending
    March 2009: Obama Stimulus $22 billion for Big 3 Automakers Chrysler and GM

    Which adds up to $1.099T...
    1.099T+ 1.2T- 24B = $2.275 Trillion... My point is still valid...

    Now as for your "Its a very simple choice the GOP has now. They can join the Democrats in extending the tax cuts for the middle class and argue about the tax cuts for the wealthy later. Or they can once again hold the middle class tax cuts hostage to the tax cuts for the wealthy."

    So let's assume we cut the taxes just for the middle class, what do we cut from the budget to make up for that tax cut we gave to the middle class?
    You ignore the huge cost of the ten's of thousands of maimed and wounded soldiers from the war. You ignore the money borrowed from our own SS trust funds to fight the unnecessary war. And most importantly you ignore the effects of the Bush recession on tax revenues. of which the CBO has testified before Congress that without the stimulus, the Recession would have been worse.

    Letting the tax cuts expire for the wealthy, together with the savings from Medicare, and an improved economy because of a stronger middle class will more than make up for the cost to extend the middle class tax cuts. To reduce the deficit, they will also eventually cut military spending as it is not feasible, sustainable, or necessary for the US to spend as much as the rest of the world combined on the military. The FICA cap will also have to be raised as we have done in the past.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Social Security and Medicare are solvent for years, there is no rush to fix them when our economy is still weak. We can wait unitl unemployment drops and revenues are at a norm.
    Umm they also said that social security wouldn't pay out more than it took in until 2016... Guess what happened in 2010... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/bu.../25social.html

    So when is it going to be solvent until? and you are really willing to risk not paying seniors what has turned into their retirement fund? What do you want next to tell them to do, not eat, or not take their medicine, as they already are hurting thanks to Obama's policies via the federal reserve to kill the interest rates... What's with liberals and hating old people?

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Seems some on 'your side of the isle' disagree:



    Howard Dean: Let's Go Over the Fiscal Cliff | Think Tank | Big Think

    Wouldn't surprise me if this wasn’t the plan by BOTH sides all along…the rest has just been political theatre.


    The Senate has already passed extension of the middle class tax cuts, its a done deal. Its up to the House now to do the same, or face the consequences in 2014.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Senate has already passed extension of the middle class tax cuts, its a done deal. Its up to the House now to do the same, or face the consequences in 2014.
    Irrelevant as tax/spending legislation has to START in the house…per the USC...this was political posturing by the Democrats in the Senate. Looks like it fooled at least one person…
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 12-04-12 at 09:59 PM.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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