Page 10 of 23 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 227

Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

  1. #91
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:26 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,544

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The latest numbers show a 2.7% growth rate for the U.S. . Now compare that to our trading partners in Europe or Japan. And please leave out 3rd world nations and communist dictatorships. What do you have left?
    Point to these "latest numbers," and also those for all of the "free world." Show the data.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  2. #92
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That is the plan that Romney/Ryan put forward. Apparently, the majority of middle class feels like they have been getting the short end of stick by giving bigger tax cuts to the rich in hopes it would trickle down. Recession and unemployment, when we were promised more jobs for tax cuts for the rich, kind of leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
    to borrow the liberal meme for the Obama economy, unemployment would have been worse without the tax cuts. raising them creates zero new jobs--it just changes deficit projections.

  3. #93
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    to borrow the liberal meme for the Obama economy, unemployment would have been worse without the tax cuts. raising them creates zero new jobs--it just changes deficit projections.
    That wasn't the case in the 1990's nor through most the most prosperous periods in our history when effective tax rates for the rich (after deductions and loopholes) were much higher than the 39% being proposed. The CBO has said eliminating the 4% tax cuts for the wealthy would have almost no affect on the economy, though eliminating the tax cuts for the middle class could throw us into another recession. Seems like an easy choice for those concerned about our economy!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #94
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That wasn't the case in the 1990's nor through most the most prosperous periods in our history when effective tax rates for the rich (after deductions and loopholes) were much higher than the 39% being proposed. The CBO has said eliminating the 4% tax cuts for the wealthy would have almost no affect on the economy, though eliminating the tax cuts for the middle class could throw us into another recession. Seems like an easy choice for those concerned about our economy!
    It is a false choice. Obama will not negotiate because he cannot negotiate--he does not control the democrats in the senate. He had to take what they would give him on healthcare, not what he wanted. If he truly controlled the Senate, he could easily pick off enough votes to raise the taxes just by being creative in what he was offering to rural district GOP members in the House. As is, there is no way for him to guarantee them anything he could promise to them. Taxes should be raised, but there needs to be cuts that House members can use for cover. For instance, carve out some family farm exceptions to the cap gains and estate tax stuff and a member of a rural district can say I protected farmers not billionaires. Right now this thing is nothing more than an ego-driven pissing match on both sides and there is no reason for it, but both sides have to put down their gun to end the Mexican standoff. Neither will, which is why we will be hitting the fiscal pothole IMHO.

  5. #95
    Student
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    05-14-13 @ 09:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    271

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And I'll say very clearly you are wrong that the tarp, the Iraq war, and the Recession only cost us $2 trillion dollars.



    What you leave out, and I'll credit you with just being unaware than trying to be deceptive, is that what received 0 votes by the Democrats in the Senate was the president's budget after amendment by the House GOP.

    Its a very simple choice the GOP has now. They can join the Democrats in extending the tax cuts for the middle class and argue about the tax cuts for the wealthy later. Or they can once again hold the middle class tax cuts hostage to the tax cuts for the wealthy.
    For the first part. Tarp we made a profit on... $24 billion TARP
    For the Wars, I'm using a cost of $3 trillion divided over the period of 2003-2012... or $300 Billion a year that's $1.2 Trillion for 4 years..
    For stimulus I'm using:
    February 2009: Obama stimulus $787 billion in broad stimulus package
    February 2009: Obama stimulus $75 billion for distressed homeowners
    February 2009: Obama stimulus $200 billion for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
    March 2009: Obama stimulus $30 billion for AIG
    March 2009: Obama Stimulus $15 billion for small business lending
    March 2009: Obama Stimulus $22 billion for Big 3 Automakers Chrysler and GM

    Which adds up to $1.099T...
    1.099T+ 1.2T- 24B = $2.275 Trillion... My point is still valid...

    Now as for your "Its a very simple choice the GOP has now. They can join the Democrats in extending the tax cuts for the middle class and argue about the tax cuts for the wealthy later. Or they can once again hold the middle class tax cuts hostage to the tax cuts for the wealthy."

    So let's assume we cut the taxes just for the middle class, what do we cut from the budget to make up for that tax cut we gave to the middle class?

  6. #96
    Student
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    05-14-13 @ 09:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    271

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Well we are the fastest growing economy in the free world so Obama's and the Feds policies are working but I think you are premature about a full recovery. That will take a few more years.
    I like your optimism though. There is far to much doom talk on the right.
    And by fastest growing economy you mean the 149th fastest growing economy...

    List of countries by real GDP growth rate (latest year) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  7. #97
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,362

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Point to these "latest numbers," and also those for all of the "free world." Show the data.
    Since you think it is so easy, why don't you point out a free nation of comparable size with better than 2.7% growth in the 3rd quarter of 2012.

    Here are some examples that don't have near our growth. They are our major trading partners and the Eurozone alone is responsible for 60% of out exports of finished goods.


  8. #98
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,362

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    to borrow the liberal meme for the Obama economy, unemployment would have been worse without the tax cuts. raising them creates zero new jobs--it just changes deficit projections.
    Actually there is no correlation between tax cuts for the wealthy and employment. Bush had dismal job creation despite both cuts he made during his terms. Clinton created more jobs than both Bush's AND Reagan put together and he RAISED taxes on the wealthy.

  9. #99
    Student
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    05-14-13 @ 09:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    271

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Since you think it is so easy, why don't you point out a free nation of comparable size with better than 2.7% growth in the 3rd quarter of 2012.

    Here are some examples that don't have near our growth. They are our major trading partners and the Eurozone alone is responsible for 60% of out exports of finished goods.

    Might want to read what your chart says... It says "change in GDP" not GDP... And there are more countries that we can include that are part of the free world than Europe which is currently in a recession...

  10. #100
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Actually there is no correlation between tax cuts for the wealthy and employment. Bush had dismal job creation despite both cuts he made during his terms. Clinton created more jobs than both Bush's AND Reagan put together and he RAISED taxes on the wealthy.
    Didn't say there were. Tax increases won't create jobs either. I am approaching this from a long-term view and the growing debt is going to be a huge problem about the time a lot of our social programs reach critical mass, but we also have the short-term problem of jobs and discretionary spending. Neither side has even scratched the surface IMHO. If I were POTUS, I would take a 6 month extension deal, and flood the Congress with specific meaningful reforms that are more substantive than the bar graph shell game to prove who has the bigger wiener.

Page 10 of 23 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •