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Obama Plans 20-day, $4 million Vacation

In terms of salary, they are rather easily the most underpaid executives in America. And as one might have learned back in the day of this particular right-wing red-herring, very few actual bills are read by any lawmaker. They are working 14-hour days and more as it is. Staff read the bills that a lawmaker hasn't him- or herself worked on, preparing appropriate oral and written briefs on what they do and why. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

But, there actual salary pales in comparison to how much money they make from insider trading, campaign contributitions, not to mention job offers after they "serve."
 
Underpaid? Are you kidding me? Look at the package they get when they leave. As for working 14 hour days, puhlease. Look at the recess times they have, travel benefits, retirement, etc.
You haven't done your homework. Congressional salary is $174,000 per year. There are strict limits on outside income. While in DC (an expensive area), you are supporting a second household. Tough commute from say Oregon as well. Congressmen often double- and triple-up in Capitol Hill rowhouses to save on costs. Some have been known to live in their offices while Congress is in session. Find top-level corporate executives who will work for and like that. 14-16 hour days are meanwhile the norm, and the actual name for what you call recesses is "district work periods". This is when they go home and do town halls and meet with civic and business leaders to learn what the problems are and what might be done about them. And then they do luncheons, parades, elementary school Q&A's, county fairs, supermarket openings, and all that other ceremonial stuff. And then they address some fund-raising dinner and pal around and glad-hand until they have to crash so they can get up early and do it all over again the next day. As for all those frilly perks, they have exactly the same choices in health and life insurance as any other federal employee. And that fabulous retirement system consists of Social Security, a tiny defined-benefit pension (typically at age 62 and funded by contributions of 1.3% of pay), plus whatever they can make out of a 401-k. Even for those who come from rather modest backgrounds, their years in Congress tend to be the "lean years" in terms of pay and perks over their lifetimes.
 
Then maybe our bills are TOO DAMN LONG.
These aren't seventh grade science projects they are working on. PPACA, the farm bill, the energy bill, the highway bill...these are broad-ranging programs. And bills in their final form are written in legislative language. Difficult to read even for the practiced. I kind of think that the problem is that our citizens just don't know enough about how their government works, so they make completely wrong assumptions and then complain when poltiicians aren't behaving in the ways they have assumed that they should.
 
I wasn't alive then but I'm sure the lefties had a problem with it.
No, they didn't. Reagan spent quite a lot of time in Santa Barbara just as Nixon had spent quite a lot of time in San Clemente. And none of it raised an eyebrow. It was just a part of business as usual until the rabid-right got fired up after 1994.

That is such a red herring its not even funny. He hasn't vetoed any because every bill thats reached his desk has increased spending. Because Democrats aren't serious about cutting non-defense spending. And if you listen to his rhetoric, it is quite obvious that his position is consistent with that premise.
What non-defense spending should be cut? And don't give me that pork, waste, and fat crap. Give me some examples of agencies and programs where you think cuts could and should be made. Here, I'll give you some fries with that. These are all the spending items from the FY 2011 budget that totalled at least $25 billion...

Social Security old age & survivors ($601 billion)
Military operations & maintenance ($318 billion)
Medicare Part-A ($261 billion)
Medicaid grants to states ($260 billion)
Net interest payments ($251 billion)
Medicare Part-B ($241 billion)
Military personnel ($154 billion)
Military procurement ($137 billion)
Social Security disability ($131 billion)
Unemployment insurance ($83 billion)
Food stamps ($80 billion)
Military R&D ($77 billion)
Federal retirement ($73 billion)
Medicare Part-D ($67 billion)
Supplemental security income ($53 billion)
Veterans pensions ($53 billion)
Military retirement ($52 billion)
Earned Income Tax Credit ($47 billion)
VA hospital care ($46 billion)
Federal highway programs ($43 billion)
Student financial assistance ($38 billion)
National Institutes of Health ($32 bilion)
Section 8 housing assistance ($29 billion)
Placeholder for PPACA startup costs ($25 billion)
 
But, there actual salary pales in comparison to how much money they make from insider trading, campaign contributitions, not to mention job offers after they "serve."
Insider trading? Get out of the slums, and campaign funds have to be spent on campaigns. Many lawmakers do of course land lucrative deals after they leave Congress. Look at the package Jim DeMint will be receiving to be director of lying over at the Heritage Foundation. But the same is true for top legislative aides and executive branch employees. They too receive big step-ups in income when they return to the private sector. This is because they are all underpaid while they are in the public sector.
 
These aren't seventh grade science projects they are working on. PPACA, the farm bill, the energy bill, the highway bill...these are broad-ranging programs. And bills in their final form are written in legislative language. Difficult to read even for the practiced. I kind of think that the problem is that our citizens just don't know enough about how their government works, so they make completely wrong assumptions and then complain when poltiicians aren't behaving in the ways they have assumed that they should.

It is a well documented exercise for congressmen to slide in extra provisions, kickbacks, and pork in between pages of the bill length. That's what needs to be cut out.
 
no, they didn't. Reagan spent quite a lot of time in santa barbara just as nixon had spent quite a lot of time in san clemente. And none of it raised an eyebrow. It was just a part of business as usual until the rabid-right got fired up after 1994.


What non-defense spending should be cut? And don't give me that pork, waste, and fat crap. Give me some examples of agencies and programs where you think cuts could and should be made. Here, i'll give you some fries with that. These are all the spending items from the fy 2011 budget that totalled at least $25 billion...

Social security old age & survivors ($601 billion)
military operations & maintenance ($318 billion)
medicare part-a ($261 billion)
medicaid grants to states ($260 billion)
net interest payments ($251 billion)
medicare part-b ($241 billion)
military personnel ($154 billion)
military procurement ($137 billion)
social security disability ($131 billion)
unemployment insurance ($83 billion)
food stamps ($80 billion)
military r&d ($77 billion)
federal retirement ($73 billion)
medicare part-d ($67 billion)
supplemental security income ($53 billion)
veterans pensions ($53 billion)
military retirement ($52 billion)
earned income tax credit ($47 billion)
va hospital care ($46 billion)
federal highway programs ($43 billion)
student financial assistance ($38 billion)
national institutes of health ($32 bilion)
section 8 housing assistance ($29 billion)
placeholder for ppaca startup costs ($25 billion)

all of the above.
 
It is a well documented exercise for congressmen to slide in extra provisions, kickbacks, and pork in between pages of the bill length. That's what needs to be cut out.
No, it isn't. The process of crafting legislation in committee is well known to all who take part ion it. Amendments by the score are proposed, debated, and voted upon. The only extra provision an appropriator could "slip in" would be an earmark. These are a necessary and highly efficient means of getting needed small potatos funding to important projects and there is nothing at all worng with them so long as they are subject to plenty of sunshine. What you want to call pork meanwhile amounts to getting something that is going to be done anyway done in your district instead of the other guy's. And isn't one of the reasons you elect a representative to promote the interests of your district and of those who live there? Bringing home one's share of the bacon would appear to be a part of what a Congressperson is paid to do.
 
all of the above.
Very thoughtful. You may want to make a note of the fact that it is only 7,628 miles from New York City to Mogadishu. There's a few stops, but you can do it in something over 30 hours.
 
Equal effort went into blaming Bush. Is that just because he's rich?

No.. But wasn't Bush on vacation when he was warned about 9/11.. Didn't he go to a birthday party in California as New Orleans sank??

Bush spent about a 3rd of his entire presidency on vacation.. Obama isn't even near that amount.. I just don't think anyone has any room to complain about Obama taking 20 days off.. Not to mention how much it costs.. Nobody complained about the countless times he want to the 'Western Whitehouse', or had it remodeled..
 
The righties don't actually need room to complain. They just do it anyway. He served overly expensive canapés when Republican leaders visited the White House. He returned the bust of Churchill that the British Embassy had lent to Bush. He did not appear to be wearing a flag lapel pin. He did appear to be ogling the derriere of a pretty girl at a G-8 summit. He replaced the carpet in the Oval Office. And of course, he was off on a $200 million per day trip to India. If they could think of a way to blame Obama for the sun's rising in the east, they'd complain about that too. They are all just a joke.
 
Its the principle, that he refuses to pass any kind of serious spending cuts, and actually wants to continue to increase spending in 2013

What spending cut bills has he vetoed?

That is such a red herring its not even funny. He hasn't vetoed any because every bill thats reached his desk has increased spending. Because Democrats aren't serious about cutting non-defense spending.
Red-herring??

:lamo:lamo

You said, "he refuses to pass any kind of serious spending cuts." Now you confess none have reached his desk. You're blaming him for not signing bills that aren't on his desk!

:lamo:lamo

:damn
 
You'd cut VA hospital care???? Damn, I hope you run for public office someday ... you'll be easy to beat.
Yeah, this is what happens to one right-winger after another when the rubber meets the road. They rail about the need for spending cuts, but after they get past their meaningless rites of wailing over waste, fraud, and abuse that doesn't exist, they can't find anything to cut that they could make an actual argument for, so they wimp out. They don't seem to understand that the share of our GDP spent through the public sector is so much smaller than what it is in other prosperous countries because spending here has been kept pretty close to a minimum of necessity.
 
People aren't pointing out what Bush did to say it's ok for Obama. There pointing it out to display the hypocrisy of those on the right.

If you bitch about the costs of having Obama president but didn't care about the costs of any other president, you are a hypocrite and can't be taken seriously. This whole thread could make for a case study in conservative delusion.

And liberal hypocrisy. Where oh where was this righteous indignation when the same BS was getting peddled out about Bush as well?

It's not a case study on "conservative delusion". It's a case study on selective politics, that's not "conservative" or "liberal" in nature. Both sides have a majority stake in that concept.

$4 million in the grand total is a drop in the bucket. Most of which is money that likely goes into ANY travel he takes. While I would commend the notion of forgoing a regular, typical, presidential vacation as a symbolic gesture I don't particularly feel that such a gesture is needed or worthy of condemnation if it doesn't occur.
 
And liberal hypocrisy. Where oh where was this righteous indignation when the same BS was getting peddled out about Bush as well?
If you mean re vacations, as any competent source would confirm, Bush really was the most absent President in any of our lifetimes. Otherwise, there really was a war in which people really were dying. There really was unemployment and declining real incomes for the majority. There really was torture and abuse and illegal surveillance and lying, and on and on and on. It's hard to stack complaints about things that were actually happening up against phony whines over too much vacation, a topic that is part of a far broader but just as vapid field.

While I would commend the notion of forgoing a regular, typical, presidential vacation as a symbolic gesture...
He already did that in August. Has it mattered any?
 
Yeah, this is what happens to one right-winger after another when the rubber meets the road. They rail about the need for spending cuts, but after they get past their meaningless rites of wailing over waste, fraud, and abuse that doesn't exist, they can't find anything to cut that they could make an actual argument for, so they wimp out. They don't seem to understand that the share of our GDP spent through the public sector is so much smaller than what it is in other prosperous countries because spending here has been kept pretty close to a minimum of necessity.

Actually the United States is the brokest country in the history of the world. Other countries have tried to spend their way to prosperity but without success though maybe, this time, with the Great Helmsman at the rudder, it just might work.

That $1,000,000,000,000 in accumulated debt each year will disappear quickly once The Great One gets his 2% tax increase.
 
Actually the United States is the brokest country in the history of the world. Other countries have tried to spend their way to prosperity but without success though maybe, this time, with the Great Helmsman at the rudder, it just might work.

That $1,000,000,000,000 in accumulated debt each year will disappear quickly once The Great One gets his 2% tax increase.

So Clinton is your idol then. He was the only modern President to balance a budget.
 
So Clinton is your idol then. He was the only modern President to balance a budget.

No, no, Obama is in a league of his own and the majority of Americans aren't interested in a balanced budget or lowering the debt anyway.

Any man with no experience whatsoever in finance or management, who was unremarkable in everything he did, who can lie to the people repeatedly and pile up trillions of debt in the process and still get re-elected, is a phenomenon for the ages. I doubt there has been anything like this in any modern democracy, ever. No one comes close to this guy.
 
Actually the United States is the brokest country in the history of the world.
A country that produces 22% of everything produced anywhere in the world is not broke. It's merely the limits of your own understanding that lead you to believe such things.

Other countries have tried to spend their way to prosperity but without success though maybe, this time, with the Great Helmsman at the rudder, it just might work.
Dude, even with the recent spike in emergency support payments to those most affected by the Great Bush Recession, overall spending is on par with historical standards. The green line below is actual spending in FY 1960 stated in constant 2005 dollars and then expanded at a rate of 3.25% per year to allow for population and productivity growth. The red line is actual spending in constant 2005 dollars over the past fifty years plus.

three_lines_second_1960-2011.jpg

That $1,000,000,000,000 in accumulated debt each year will disappear quickly once The Great One gets his 2% tax increase.
We haven't paid off the public debt since 1836, and no one has any plans to do so now. We in fact won't ever pay off our public debt and neither will any other prosperous economy that is carrying debt which is all of them. National governments are not like households you know. Whole dfferent ballgame. When people tell you that the federal government should have to budget just like you do, they are lying to you. That's the only word for it. What they should tell you is that the federal government should have to budget just the way you would if you were immortal and had both taxing authority and currency-issuing authority. Do you think any of those factors would make a difference in your personal approach to finance?
 
So Clinton is your idol then. He was the only modern President to balance a budget.
Clinton was a fiscal moderate and so is Obama. The difference is that Bush-41 left a small mess for Clinton and Bush-43 left a huge mess for Obama.
 
No, no, Obama is in a league of his own and the majority of Americans aren't interested in a balanced budget or lowering the debt anyway.
Polls say they are interested in something better than the Great Bush Recession. They want a government that works, not one that has been drowned in a bathtub.

Any man with no experience whatsoever in finance or management, who was unremarkable in everything he did, who can lie to the people repeatedly and pile up trillions of debt in the process and still get re-elected, is a phenomenon for the ages.
You only demean yourself in demeaning his personal record, and maybe consider what the Republican alternatives were. My friends, those two would have made Jethro Clampett look attractive.

I doubt there has been anything like this in any modern democracy, ever. No one comes close to this guy.
Too much Karl Rove and Dick Morris. Time to unplug those coffee pots. They just make you dumber every day that you drink from them.
 
A country that produces 22% of everything produced anywhere in the world is not broke. It's merely the limits of your own understanding that lead you to believe such things.


Dude, even with the recent spike in emergency support payments to those most affected by the Great Bush Recession, overall spending is on par with historical standards. The green line below is actual spending in FY 1960 stated in constant 2005 dollars and then expanded at a rate of 3.25% per year to allow for population and productivity growth. The red line is actual spending in constant 2005 dollars over the past fifty years plus.

View attachment 67139338


We haven't paid off the public debt since 1836, and no one has any plans to do so now. We in fact won't ever pay off our public debt and neither will any other prosperous economy that is carrying debt which is all of them. National governments are not like households you know. Whole dfferent ballgame. When people tell you that the federal government should have to budget just like you do, they are lying to you. That's the only word for it. What they should tell you is that the federal government should have to budget just the way you would if you were immortal and had both taxing authority and currency-issuing authority. Do you think any of those factors would make a difference in your personal approach to finance?

I didn't realize Obama was doing such a great job. $1,000,000,000,000 plus in annual debt is no big deal then. it's normal. So is the interest on that debt normal.

Borrowing money and printing money seems like a good way to continued growth and prosperity for everyone then. It's amazing that no one else has thought of this before..
 
Polls say they are interested in something better than the Great Bush Recession. They want a government that works, not one that has been drowned in a bathtub.

Well this government should be working. It's certainly big enough and the American people can certainly afford big government if they continue to borrow and print money as they need it.

You only demean yourself in demeaning his personal record, and maybe consider what the Republican alternatives were. My friends, those two would have made Jethro Clampett look attractive.

Demean Obama's personal record? Did I lie about his not having any managerial or financial experience before the American people, in their eagerness for Hope and Change, choose hiom to be their President? My only question would be Why?
Too much Karl Rove and Dick Morris. Time to unplug those coffee pots. They just make you dumber every day that you drink from them.

What is it with Leftists and the ad homs? Do you really think you are clever, or that what you say could possibly bother me? Try to do better, okay?
 
Clinton was a fiscal moderate and so is Obama. The difference is that Bush-41 left a small mess for Clinton and Bush-43 left a huge mess for Obama.

yes, Several years of Obama and its still the fault of George Bush. Rinse and repeat.
 
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