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Thread: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

  1. #191
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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    You really need to study up if you want to attempt to debate me on this

    Nobody paid those rates back then. There were so many loopholes and deductions, nobody paid them. You're just bleeting some useless talking point you read on Daily Kos.

    When Reagan lowered the marginal rates from 70% to 28% he eliminated many of those loopholes and deductions. The result was MASSIVE Economic Growth as high as 9.3% GDP in one quarter with a million jobs created in one month.

    So let's get deeper into this. If we raise taxes on small business and the evil rich, what do you predict GDP Growth will be

    "For people whose income ranked between the top 1 percent and top 0.5 percent, the effective tax rate for individual, corporate, payroll and estate was 34.0 percent in 1960, 36.1 percent in 1970, 37.6 percent in 1980, 31.5 percent in 1990, 35.7 percent in 2000 and 31.3 percent in 2004.

    For those earning between the top 0.1 percent and 0.5 percent of the income curve, the numbers were 41.4 percent in 1960, 44.6 percent in 1970, 43.0 percent in 1980, 33.0 percent in 1990, 38.4 percent in 2000 and 33.0 percent in 2004.

    For those earning between 0.01 percent and 0.1 percent, the rates were 55.3 percent in 1960, 59.1 percent in 1970, 51.0 percent in 1980, 34.3 percent in 1990, 40.2 percent in 2000 and 34.1 percent in 2004.

    Finally, for those in the top 0.01 percent of the income distribution, the effective tax rate was 71.4 percent in 1960, 74.6 percent in 1970, 59.3 percent in 1980, 35.4 percent in 1990, 40.8 percent in 2000 and 34.7 percent in 2004."

    PolitiFact | Barack Obama says tax rates are lowest since 1950s for CEOs, hedge fund managers

    And, 98% of small businesses will not be affected if the tax rate goes up for those making more than $250,000.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #192
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    Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Have you forgotten, or were you ever aware, that the Bush tax cuts were temporary.
    True. According to law they expire in 29 days in bipartisan fashion. Isn't compromise wonderful!
    People in Dubai don't like the Flintstones but people in Abu Dhabi do

  3. #193
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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    REpublicans were unwaivering in their opposition to health care reform and they are currently enthralled to Grover Norquist - the guy who calls all the shots for the Republicans. They like playing hardball - and I think they've finally gotten the President to play the game too. The President doesn't have to run for re-election and he doesn't have a master like Norquist to whom he must answer. It should be a very interesting game. My money is on Obama.
    I'm not sure how anyone can argue with this kind of mentality let alone memory? I thought you were serious, if only for a second.

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  4. #194
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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Obama and the Democrats have enacted the largest tax increase on the poor and middle class in History

    Try again


    Your opinion does not interest me.
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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Ryan is a member of Congress. Last I heard, the Constitution still required the Congress to pass laws. Sucks that the left hasn't figured out how to do it by Executive Order, but that is their lot in life. The Speaker has offered revenues. Where are Obama's new cuts? As someone else pointed out, the Fiscal Cliff is the bi-partisan plan. Obama agreed to it. If he is not willing to play the game, so be it. He is the one who signed the Cliff into existence. The House has a 7% approval rating--they do not have a "mandate" to fix the problem. As the left tries to point out, Obama does. It does not mean he gets what he wants, it just means he has more to lose politically than the GOP. It isn't like our "What are you going to do for me now" electorate will give a tinker's darn about this in 2 years let alone 4.
    We'll see.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Ryan is a member of Congress. Last I heard, the Constitution still required the Congress to pass laws. Sucks that the left hasn't figured out how to do it by Executive Order, but that is their lot in life. The Speaker has offered revenues. Where are Obama's new cuts? As someone else pointed out, the Fiscal Cliff is the bi-partisan plan. Obama agreed to it. If he is not willing to play the game, so be it. He is the one who signed the Cliff into existence. The House has a 7% approval rating--they do not have a "mandate" to fix the problem. As the left tries to point out, Obama does. It does not mean he gets what he wants, it just means he has more to lose politically than the GOP. It isn't like our "What are you going to do for me now" electorate will give a tinker's darn about this in 2 years let alone 4.
    Obama has nothing to lose, the press will see to that. I have little faith in the current DC crowd that gave us this mess. I see the republicants caving again on all but giving up the debt ceiling rights. There is not sufficient time to get any serious entitlement reform done and both sides can play fancy accounting tricks to make more spending be called "cuts" backloaded into part of some 10-year plan.
    典he reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    True. According to law they expire in 29 days in bipartisan fashion. Isn't compromise wonderful!
    The House will renew them before then, or commit political suicide. I predict they will vote to continue the middle class tax cuts.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your opinion does not interest me.
    Dodge noted

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "For people whose income ranked between the top 1 percent and top 0.5 percent, the effective tax rate for individual, corporate, payroll and estate was 34.0 percent in 1960, 36.1 percent in 1970, 37.6 percent in 1980, 31.5 percent in 1990, 35.7 percent in 2000 and 31.3 percent in 2004.

    For those earning between the top 0.1 percent and 0.5 percent of the income curve, the numbers were 41.4 percent in 1960, 44.6 percent in 1970, 43.0 percent in 1980, 33.0 percent in 1990, 38.4 percent in 2000 and 33.0 percent in 2004.

    For those earning between 0.01 percent and 0.1 percent, the rates were 55.3 percent in 1960, 59.1 percent in 1970, 51.0 percent in 1980, 34.3 percent in 1990, 40.2 percent in 2000 and 34.1 percent in 2004.

    Finally, for those in the top 0.01 percent of the income distribution, the effective tax rate was 71.4 percent in 1960, 74.6 percent in 1970, 59.3 percent in 1980, 35.4 percent in 1990, 40.8 percent in 2000 and 34.7 percent in 2004."

    PolitiFact | Barack Obama says tax rates are lowest since 1950s for CEOs, hedge fund managers

    And, 98% of small businesses will not be affected if the tax rate goes up for those making more than $250,000.
    Look at you running to the left wing Politifact to bail you out. Unfortunately it doesn't refute the points I've made.

    The Federal Government didn't have a blank check back then where it was spending 3.8T a year like it is now. Finally, and it's the most important fact you keep ignoring, NOBODY paid those rates because of all the loopholes and deductions. So again, instead of you googling Politifact with some hack piece defending Obama, tell me what you believe GDP Growth will be when we raise taxes on small businesses and the evil rich? Again, you're just tossing out garbage in a vacuum without any context.

    Federal Spending as a % of GDP after WW2 went down as much as 40%. In contrast it's going up 35% a year since 2010.

    Let's look at CA, which is the blueprint for your utopia. 1/3 of all welfare recipients in the nation live in CA, despite the fact they only make up 1/8th of the Population. The effective STATE INCOME TAX RATE IN CA is 10.3% and it's set to increase to 13.3% within 7 years. Another fact you are not adding within your equation is that when the rates were higher, state taxes were nowhere near where they are now. The bottom 50% pay zero income taxes, yet benefit from Government subsidies and hand outs.

    We need Economic growth. It's not rocket science. Unfortunately we have to deal with class warfare rhetoric Collectivists who want to divide and demonize.

    W. Kurt Hauser: There's No Escaping Hauser's Law - WSJ.com

    Even amoebas learn by trial and error, but some economists and politicians do not. The Obama administration's budget projections claim that raising taxes on the top 2% of taxpayers, those individuals earning more than $200,000 and couples earning $250,000 or more, will increase revenues to the U.S. Treasury. The empirical evidence suggests otherwise. None of the personal income tax or capital gains tax increases enacted in the post-World War II period has raised the projected tax revenues.

    Over the past six decades, tax revenues as a percentage of GDP have averaged just under 19% regardless of the top marginal personal income tax rate. The top marginal rate has been as high as 92% (1952-53) and as low as 28% (1988-90). This observation was first reported in an op-ed I wrote for this newspaper in March 1993. A wit later dubbed this "Hauser's Law."


    Notice the increase in revenue after the evil Bush Tax cuts. We have a spending problem. Not a revenue problem. Have a nice day.


  9. #199
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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Dodge noted



    Look at you running to the left wing Politifact to bail you out. Unfortunately it doesn't refute the points I've made.

    The Federal Government didn't have a blank check back then where it was spending 3.8T a year like it is now. Finally, and it's the most important fact you keep ignoring, NOBODY paid those rates because of all the loopholes and deductions. So again, instead of you googling Politifact with some hack piece defending Obama, tell me what you believe GDP Growth will be when we raise taxes on small businesses and the evil rich? Again, you're just tossing out garbage in a vacuum without any context.

    Federal Spending as a % of GDP after WW2 went down as much as 40%. In contrast it's going up 35% a year since 2010.

    Let's look at CA, which is the blueprint for your utopia. 1/3 of all welfare recipients in the nation live in CA, despite the fact they only make up 1/8th of the Population. The effective STATE INCOME TAX RATE IN CA is 10.3% and it's set to increase to 13.3% within 7 years. Another fact you are not adding within your equation is that when the rates were higher, state taxes were nowhere near where they are now. The bottom 50% pay zero income taxes, yet benefit from Government subsidies and hand outs.

    We need Economic growth. It's not rocket science. Unfortunately we have to deal with class warfare rhetoric Collectivists who want to divide and demonize.

    W. Kurt Hauser: There's No Escaping Hauser's Law - WSJ.com





    Notice the increase in revenue after the evil Bush Tax cuts. We have a spending problem. Not a revenue problem. Have a nice day.


    As documented above, history shows those of us interested in looking at it, that the effective tax rates for the wealthy were higher than anything being proposed today.

    Trickle down economics was a failed experiment and the people have rejected it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #200
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    Re: Obama to GOP: I知 done negotiating with myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    OK, so they've finally gotten off the pot. The White House liked their suggestion just about as much as they liked his. Now what? I think the White House is perfectly willing to let the Republicans take us over the financial 'cliff' because they don't want their millionaire buddies taxed at a higher rate.
    I think we should go over the cliff. Its going to be the only compromise we are going to get anytime soon. Democrats aren't serious about cutting spending(we need alot) and Republicans aren't serious about raising taxes(we need alot).

    Hell, if we cut spending 10% across the board and raised taxes 10% across the board we would be better off than we are now, but you and I both know that would never happen.

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