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Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how children

Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

in what way is it to be expected?

In the way that is a necessity, when the health care system can't afford it anymore. There is essentially no difference in capping services for elderly patients who have little to no chance of recovery, and premature neonates who have the same chance.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

In the way that is a necessity, when the health care system can't afford it anymore. There is essentially no difference in capping services for elderly patients who have little to no chance of recovery, and premature neonates who have the same chance.

yeh I see your point but I dont see being any different from an insurance company deceiding who gets what etc. As I have said before I dont think anyone has the perfect system and we are going to see them more and more stretched if the population keeps growing like it is.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

yeh I see your point but I dont see being any different from an insurance company deceiding who gets what etc. As I have said before I dont think anyone has the perfect system and we are going to see them more and more stretched if the population keeps growing like it is.
One difference seems to be that the patients or their loved ones are involved in the decision making process w/ LCP. I am not sure that is the case in re insurance.
 
Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

Not sure if i trust this story. After all, it's from the conservative "national enquirer
search this forum or Google for more info about LCP
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Sorry, but when you're costing the system unlimited funds, and you'll never live a meaningful life, it's money going down the drain, regardless of how you feel about it.

Now, if only people would admit that this kind of rationing happens anyway and stop using it as a talking point against a healthcare system that ensures everyone gets at least basic care.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Now, if only people would admit that this kind of rationing happens anyway and stop using it as a talking point against a healthcare system that ensures everyone gets at least basic care.
Despite the desires of the OP and others, the LCP doesn't actually seem to be about rationing healthcare.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

I can understand that for some death may be a preferred outcome and I even support assisted suicide, however assisting someone in a painless quick humane death is much different then simply leaving someone to die a slow possibly miserable death.



Gosh I so dislike the word humane.

humane - definition of humane by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

humane [hjuːˈmeɪn]
adj
1. characterized by kindness, mercy, sympathy, etc.
2. inflicting as little pain as possible a humane killing
3. civilizing or liberal (esp in the phrases humane studies, humane education)
[variant of human]

Humans are the most destructive, corrosive, hurtful species on the planet and we fashion a word after us describing kindness, mercy, sympathy....
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

The cruel fact of the matter is that a good number of seriously premature babies are very costly- for life, not just for the time they spend in the NICU, and what it amounts to is that our technology has surpassed our ability to pay for it. No doubt it's very sad, but when you're paying for a national health system, money WILL become an issue. The same thing will happen here, eventually, especially now that we are going to add more health care costs onto the taxpayers' backs.

But we all know that Palin is a psycho retard. she couldn't possilby have been right about death panels, right?

tell me about the rabbits again, obama.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

You are correct. Palin was completely wrong.
But we all know that Palin is a psycho retard. she couldn't possilby have been right about death panels, right?

tell me about the rabbits again, obama.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

You are correct. Palin was completely wrong.

That's a mighty fine crystal ball you have there. Rose tinted, even ? Neato.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

"Originally, she coined the term based on a component of the healthcare reform bill that would have allowed Medicare to cover end-of-life counseling by physicians"

Sarah Palin's 'death panel' claim rises from the grave - latimes.com



You do know when she brought it up the first time it was about advanced directives. Any doctor that does not discuss end of life issues with his patients aint doing his job. Course that was so stupid she has morphed it to something slightly less stupid. See article.
That's a mighty fine crystal ball you have there. Rose tinted, even ? Neato.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

The cruel fact of the matter is that a good number of seriously premature babies are very costly- for life, not just for the time they spend in the NICU, and what it amounts to is that our technology has surpassed our ability to pay for it. No doubt it's very sad, but when you're paying for a national health system, money WILL become an issue. The same thing will happen here, eventually, especially now that we are going to add more health care costs onto the taxpayers' backs.

Right, death panels cometh.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

"Originally, she coined the term based on a component of the healthcare reform bill that would have allowed Medicare to cover end-of-life counseling by physicians"

Sarah Palin's 'death panel' claim rises from the grave - latimes.com


You do know when she brought it up the first time it was about advanced directives. Any doctor that does not discuss end of life issues with his patients aint doing his job. Course that was so stupid she has morphed it to something slightly less stupid. See article.

You are talking about the first time she mentioned anything about it. Later she made reference to the IPAB rationing care.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Yea, because the advanced directives thing was soooo stupid, she had to change it. I just dont think she really knew.
You are talking about the first time she mentioned anything about it. Later she made reference to the IPAB rationing care.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Yea, because the advanced directives thing was soooo stupid, she had to change it. I just dont think she really knew.

If it was so stupid why did they delete everything even remotely related to "end of life care" from the bill? Oh my. She must have fooled our precious leader. Tricksy. She's a triscky dummy.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

It is a very fundamental part of everyone's medical care. I don't know that they did remove it, I will take your word for it, but if they did it was probably because Palin and the Tea Party went crazy over something that is so basic the Doctors, hospitals, and nursing staff make sure it is done, even if not paid. IF someone that reads this really is open minded read about what Palin is and was really saying. The RWers seem to be doubleing down on it again. It wont be long till my mom starts sending those emails again.
If it was so stupid why did they delete everything even remotely related to "end of life care" from the bill?
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

if they did it was probably because Palin and the Tea Party went crazy over something .

Oh ya, i remember the tea party sitting in those smoky backrooms with Obama, reid, and co.. Tricksy tea partiers.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Are you still talking about death panels? Palin was talking about end of life/advanced directives. It was very dumb, the Repubs still talk about it. so yea, talk about smoky backrooms or something.
Oh ya, i remember the tea party sitting in those smoky backrooms with Obama, reid, and co.. Tricksy tea partiers.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Despite the desires of the OP and others, the LCP doesn't actually seem to be about rationing healthcare.

Eventually, that will likely be the outcome. With an increasing number of elderly, relative to the population, choices will have to be made about capping health care expenditures per person. As it stands, and according to the medicare trustee report that I recently read about, we're looking at 45 trillion dollars in the foreseeable future. As far as I know, health care costs (medicare) are growing more rapidly than SS, which is already a looming expense.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

Eventually, that will likely be the outcome.
The outcome of what? Having a set of procedures in place for dealing with dying people in hospitals? I don't think that having a plan for dealing with the needs of the terminally ill is quite at all the same as rationing care. Sure people all over the world in a wide variety of circumstances have to make the decision about when to let a loved one go and when to keep trying. But a hospital having a plan in place for helping people in these situations isn't the same thing as having someone outside of the patient or the patient's loved ones make the decision. If you read up on the LCP, the patient or the patient's loved ones are the ones who make the decision.
 
Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

What was removed from the act, due to the unholy fuss about death panels, was the option for your doctor to be paid to discuss with you what your preferences were should your death be imminent. If he's not paid for it, he's less likely to do it, then when you are in extremis and too sick to communicate your wishes, such as "In the event that I've had a massive stoke and I'm riddled with cancer, just let me go, without tubes and heroic attempts to save me" they do their best to save you instead, and you spend two years as a zombie in a nursing care home, trapped in a wrecked body smelling slightly of wee.
Better to discuss it beforehand when all is calm and rational, and have it recorded, than have some stranger in an ER make those decisions on your behalf when you can't.
 
Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

Good Lord! I can't even believe how such barbarism is so tolerated by so many. If it is decided to let a baby die give it a shot like you do your beloved pet when the time comes. Put the poor baby out of its misery in a humane fashion.
 
Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

One anonymous letter in the BMJ which makes no mention of the LCP is hardly a foundation for this latest moral panic.
 
Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

Good Lord! I can't even believe how such barbarism is so tolerated by so many. If it is decided to let a baby die give it a shot like you do your beloved pet when the time comes. Put the poor baby out of its misery in a humane fashion.
I agree.
But, as you can see in this thread, a number of us abandon rationality at the mere suggestion that a doctor could be allowed to kill someone.
 
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