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Thread: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how children

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    Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

    Often times it is just not good medicine to feed and hydrate someone no matter what the financial concerns.
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    Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Insurance companies have to have limits. This is one of the few things that helps contain costs. No matter what anyone wants to believe, there is no right to have unlimited healthcare, and sometimes, the costs outweigh the benefit.
    Sorry, but when you're costing the system unlimited funds, and you'll never live a meaningful life, it's money going down the drain, regardless of how you feel about it.
    So long as the company is not bankrupt it should pay when people get sick. They gamble on a persons health and make profit for each healthy person. If they lose the gamble and too many get sick they dont get to keep profit going. They lost the bet, pay up and go outa business.
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    Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

    Heaven forbid that hospitals et al have established procedures for these sorts of events. That's just horrific. Hospitals and care facilities should fly into these situations ignorant and blind.
    What business do these people have in determining what processes work best?

    ****ing animals I tell you.

    On the positive side, I'm glad that the OP didn't link to info about the liverpool pathways thingy. The last thread about it linked to some info about LCP and totally undercut its own argument by doing so.
    So kudos for keeping that info out of the mix. Not having all that extraneous data about the LCP makes for a much stronger OP.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Yes. Did you?
    If you read the article you wouldn't have asked that question

    From the article:

    She said: ‘The parents feel coerced, at a very traumatic time, into agreeing that this is correct for their child whom they are told by doctors has only has a few days to live. It is very difficult to predict death. I have seen a “reasonable” number of children recover after being taken off the pathway.

    ‘I have also seen children die in terrible thirst because fluids are withdrawn from them until they die

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    Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

    This argument is disengenous.

    It is not good medicine to keep everyone and everything alive as long as possible. I would bet, though neither of us was there, the Doctors were factual in their prognosis and were reluctant to start articifial life support one someone when it would merely prolong the misery. I have often seen one family member insist on doing everything possible including putting grampa with lung cancer on the vent cause her aunt Betty lived years after the doctors told her she was gonna die...in my opinion it is not good medicine...and should olny be done on patient insistance. Not family members with unrealistic expectations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    If you read the article you wouldn't have asked that question

    From the article:
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    Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

    http://www.americanhospice.org/artic...ial-or-harmful

    Myth: A dying person who has become dehydrated due to lack of fluids experiences extreme thirst, pain and distress.

    Fact: Dehydration in a seriously ill person with a terminal condition, and in the frail elderly, is not painful. In fact, frail elderly persons have a blunted sense of thirst, which allows them to slip rather easily into a dehydrated state. This is generally characterized by increased sleepiness and less mental alertness without other signs of distress. In the dying patient, studies have shown that the majority never experience thirst, or only initially, and the thirst that occurs is easily alleviated by small amounts of fluids or ice chips given by mouth, and by lubricating the lips.
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    Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating that the UK system is no worse than the US system. The proverbial "death panels" exist in the US as well, only they're staffed by representatives of wealthy insurance company investors, and they stand to benefit financially from denying coverage. In the UK, at least personal profit of another person is not a factor in the decision to pull someone off of life support.
    I didn't say it is worse than the US system. What I am saying is that this is to be expected with nationalized health care.
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    Re: UK Baby Death Panels: IPAB Here We Come

    "Death cannot be predicted so precisely."

    If a parent makes the heart wrenching decision to allow their terminally ill child, especially an infant, to die without corrective medical care....well then why they holy living hell is that death not at least as humane as the euthanasia we provide to our household pets? Allowing a child to languish for days without food or water is just cruel..not only to the child, but to their caretakers and family. People keep mentioning that it is just the withdrawal of nutrients via "artificial" means....but an infant can only eat/drink if it is provided with food/drink, and most premies can't even latch, so they would have to be fed by "artificial" means regardless of their prognosis.

    We can curl up with Fido and pet him lovingly while he drifts calmly to an eternal sleep, but our "humanity" dictates that we have to let our own flesh and blood starve and dehydrate because somehow quick and (more often than not) complication free euthanasia is somehow not good enough.
    Last edited by tessaesque; 11-29-12 at 05:43 PM.
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    Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    http://www.americanhospice.org/artic...ial-or-harmful

    Myth: A dying person who has become dehydrated due to lack of fluids experiences extreme thirst, pain and distress.

    Fact: Dehydration in a seriously ill person with a terminal condition, and in the frail elderly, is not painful. In fact, frail elderly persons have a blunted sense of thirst, which allows them to slip rather easily into a dehydrated state. This is generally characterized by increased sleepiness and less mental alertness without other signs of distress. In the dying patient, studies have shown that the majority never experience thirst, or only initially, and the thirst that occurs is easily alleviated by small amounts of fluids or ice chips given by mouth, and by lubricating the lips.
    Lubricate the lips yet withhold fluids to the body... Sounds like a way to disguise death by doctor to me.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor's haunting testimony reveals how chil


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