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Thread: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

  1. #51
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Did you break any tax laws in the US before you left? Did you continue to reap the benefits of doing business here while avoiding paying for those benefits? No? Then clearly this doesn't apply to you. And technically, I never said anything about confiscation. I see that a few people went there, but I didn't mention in. If a business wants to use tricks and loopholes to avoid paying its due, then the nation that's being cheated should refuse to extend the protections of their laws to that business. That might manifest, in some cases, as confiscating what is left behind, but again, this is only a reaction to gross violations of the law and what amounts to massive theft from the people of a country. If you refuse to participate in the social contract, don't be surprised when no one else wants to extend its protections to you.
    We're not talking about businesses. The OP was stating that it appears that the rich are leaving Britain due to the tax laws. Now, if we were to assume that it is true, and that they have paid all of their due taxes, what do they owe their country if they decide to expatriate?

    When I boarded a plane for Germany, all of my tax bills were paid, and considering the insanely high tax rate here, it certainly wasn't to avoid taxes. However, the concept remains the same, I do not owe my country anything that I have not already provided them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And an excellent response by the nation that is being abandoned would be to disallow any future business from those who do not hold any loyalty to the country that protected and benefited them for so long. If they want to cut and run, why shouldn't the UK or any other nation do the same? This is literally just reciprocating to these people what they have done in the first place.
    I'm not sure what the socialist view is on free trade, so maybe you can enlighten me. I for one believe that our citizens and our country should be able to enter into mutual contracts with citizens and foreigners alike, regardless of their allegiance or nationality.

    Your posts suggests that you only support economic trade with American citizens, but I know that probably isn't the case, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. What do you mean by that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Pasch's wall of text crits you in the face.
    Don't get saucy, you're one of the few people on this forum I respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  2. #52
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So then why should they be allowed to take what they've gotten from the people of a country away from that country? If you do business in a country, you should be taxed by that country for the business you're doing. If you refuse to pay the taxes, then your business is now an illegal one.
    OK. So youd have the ceo pay tax on his income in 100+ countries?

    Hows that work?

    You havent thought this one through. Youre living in the wrong century with your views.

    Did you know more people have migrated in the last few hundred years than were alive a few hundred years ago?

    Its relevant. Think about it.

    Also google tax evasion methods.

    I know its a cryptic answer but seriously you have to put in at least some of the effort

    Pasch's wall of text crits you in the face
    Shame it was paper thin.

  3. #53
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    We're not talking about businesses. The OP was stating that it appears that the rich are leaving Britain due to the tax laws. Now, if we were to assume that it is true, and that they have paid all of their due taxes, what do they owe their country if they decide to expatriate?

    When I boarded a plane for Germany, all of my tax bills were paid, and considering the insanely high tax rate here, it certainly wasn't to avoid taxes. However, the concept remains the same, I do not owe my country anything that I have not already provided them.
    I'm assuming that these people still plan to do business in the UK and benefit from it, even while avoiding the taxes they were previously paying. Part of this is an emotional reaction, that a person ought to show loyalty to their country, and not simply abandon it because you can't use it to get as rich as you'd like. That's some of my views on patriotism showing through. When you left the US, you no longer benefited from profits on business dealings in the US, right? Or at least not to this extent. You did not take a substantial portion of the country's wealth with you. You took no more than is truly your fair share. These guys want to take their fair share and a lot of other peoples' share.

    Think of it this way. You and I, middle class type people, put in to the community and obtain compensation at a fairly balanced rate. At the higher end, the compensation is front-loaded, and then to take all of that front-loaded benefit and refuse to put back is, I feel, a highly immoral thing to do. If these folks obtained their compensation at the balance that those who are not super rich do, then it wouldn't be a problem, since the community would have benefited just as much, simply on a larger scale. But the front-loading twists that. The exchange of benefit between the rich person and the rest of the community is thrown out of balance. It is that balance that I think needs to be restored.

    I'm not sure what the socialist view is on free trade, so maybe you can enlighten me. I for one believe that our citizens and our country should be able to enter into mutual contracts with citizens and foreigners alike, regardless of their allegiance or nationality.

    Your posts suggests that you only support economic trade with American citizens, but I know that probably isn't the case, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. What do you mean by that?
    I don't know of any specific socialist view on free trade. I know that many socialist groups decry our current ideas of free trade as essentially not free at all, but rather tilted to benefit those who are already powerful and wealthy. I agree with your position, that people of one nation should be able to contract with others without hindrance. The trouble is when multi-national corporations operate beyond the control of a government. Keep in mind that I view government as the instrument of the will of the people (you know, in an ideal world with no corruption), and in this case serves as a check on these powerful enterprises. Without that check, a corporation can essentially function as its own nation, making its own rules as it goes, only it is not beholden to the will of any population, merely to a small group of owners. It essentially becomes a rogue and predatory nation, acting no differently from Iran or Iraq towards their less powerful neighbors. When you act like a government, and wield the power of a government, but aren't responsible to anyone, then I see a lot of danger.

    Don't get saucy, you're one of the few people on this forum I respect.
    I didn't realize how long that post was until I submitted it. Also thanks. ^_^
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  4. #54
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm assuming that these people still plan to do business in the UK and benefit from it, even while avoiding the taxes they were previously paying. Part of this is an emotional reaction, that a person ought to show loyalty to their country, and not simply abandon it because you can't use it to get as rich as you'd like. That's some of my views on patriotism showing through. When you left the US, you no longer benefited from profits on business dealings in the US, right? Or at least not to this extent. You did not take a substantial portion of the country's wealth with you. You took no more than is truly your fair share. These guys want to take their fair share and a lot of other peoples' share.
    Patriotism is a fiction that I no longer believe in. My loyalty lies with my family and friends. I don't believe that I owe my society anything (in fact, as a veteran, I tend to believe that I've given my society back far more than I've received), so I find it hard to grasp the idea of owing a society something. I still conduct business in the US. I day trade in the US markets, and I am an electronics engineer for a small US based startup company. However, the fact that I am an American does not mean that the fruits of my labor belong to the masses. If I were to go into the woods on my property, cut down some trees, and make a table from that wood, I should be able to sell that table and keep the large majority of the profit. It is the sweat of my brow, and I feel I am entitled to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Think of it this way. You and I, middle class type people, put in to the community and obtain compensation at a fairly balanced rate. At the higher end, the compensation is front-loaded, and then to take all of that front-loaded benefit and refuse to put back is, I feel, a highly immoral thing to do. If these folks obtained their compensation at the balance that those who are not super rich do, then it wouldn't be a problem, since the community would have benefited just as much, simply on a larger scale. But the front-loading twists that. The exchange of benefit between the rich person and the rest of the community is thrown out of balance. It is that balance that I think needs to be restored.
    I certainly agree that there is a wealth imbalance in this country. However, there is also my moral values that state that I believe that one is entitled to the fruits of one's labor. I don't see my community compensating me for the work I do. I see myself as entering into a contract where I provide work for an X amount of compensation. I can honestly sympathize with a lot of the socialistic ideals. I find it extremely heartbreaking that so many people must live in poverty and suffering. However at the same time, I can't justify unduly taking from others to give to these people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I don't know of any specific socialist view on free trade. I know that many socialist groups decry our current ideas of free trade as essentially not free at all, but rather tilted to benefit those who are already powerful and wealthy. I agree with your position, that people of one nation should be able to contract with others without hindrance. The trouble is when multi-national corporations operate beyond the control of a government. Keep in mind that I view government as the instrument of the will of the people (you know, in an ideal world with no corruption), and in this case serves as a check on these powerful enterprises. Without that check, a corporation can essentially function as its own nation, making its own rules as it goes, only it is not beholden to the will of any population, merely to a small group of owners. It essentially becomes a rogue and predatory nation, acting no differently from Iran or Iraq towards their less powerful neighbors. When you act like a government, and wield the power of a government, but aren't responsible to anyone, then I see a lot of danger.
    I'm glad that we agree on free trade being a good thing. I'm sure this'll drive you crazy, but to quote Milton Friedman: "The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit."
    To me, there isn't a fixed pie. Both the consumer and producer can mutually benefit from a market situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I didn't realize how long that post was until I submitted it. Also thanks. ^_^
    Of course. You and I agree on a lot of end-states, but disagree on the best way to accomplish that end-state. You're a lot like waas, we can be friends even though we may not agree on very much, but at least we can both debate on an intellectual level without getting ridiculous. I'm finding it more and more difficult to have an actual debate with people on DP. It almost feels like people are getting dumber.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Name-calling... brilliant.
    Also contradictory, as fascism and socialism are very different philosophies,
    but I don't really expect you to know that. They're just buzzwords, right? And this is totally the same scenario as Nazi Germany, except for the part where these companies and their owners are violating the laws of the countries where they're doing business, and actually hurting people. But aside from that, demanding that profiteers actually compensate the nations where they build their wealth for all the benefits, services, and labor they obtain there is exactly like persecuting a religion.







    "The National-Socialist German Worker Party" was their official name so umm yeah, fascism and socialism do have a history of being one and the same.
    Last edited by sawyerloggingon; 11-28-12 at 07:21 PM.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    To summarize, the silly meme of the OP reduces to an admission that rich people have no love of any country and thus only care about making more and more money for themselves, no matter who that hurts (even though they are already fabulously rich and don't have to work another day of their lifes).

    And somehow tea partiers think this is an argument for taxing the rich less!

    You have to love rightwing memes. So out of touch.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    or you could simply say the rich are tired of giving money to political dictators that use that money to buy the votes of those who aren't rich for more golf games....vacations...and big tent parties at their home office...


    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    To summarize, the silly meme of the OP reduces to an admission that rich people have no love of any country and thus only care about making more and more money for themselves, no matter who that hurts (even though they are already fabulously rich and don't have to work another day of their lifes).

    And somehow tea partiers think this is an argument for taxing the rich less!

    You have to love rightwing memes. So out of touch.

  8. #58
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    To summarize, the silly meme of the OP reduces to an admission that rich people have no love of any country and thus only care about making more and more money for themselves, no matter who that hurts (even though they are already fabulously rich and don't have to work another day of their lifes).

    And somehow tea partiers think this is an argument for taxing the rich less!

    You have to love rightwing memes. So out of touch.
    Good excuse to have the very rich put down, I think, since they are happy in no human community.

  9. #59
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    For the government to take half of anyone's income is obscene.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    or you could simply say the rich are tired of giving money to political dictators that use that money to buy the votes of those who aren't rich for more golf games....vacations...and big tent parties at their home office...
    So you think the UK and the US are dictatorships.

    See, that's why nobody takes conservatives seriously anymore. You're intellectually bankrupt.

    By the way, hate to get all logical on you and all, but how many millionaires DIDN'T leave the UK? Kind of need to know that, don't we, to evaluate whether the OP has any meaning besides more ridiculous tea party talking points.

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