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Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

millionares????

what about the multi billionares?

The Royals?

I believe the Rothschilds reside in London - they are supposedly the worlds only trillionares

They havent fled?

they must know someone high up - like Murdoch
 
Paul Austin said:
For which story? 4 years is a long time. A lots happened. Which parts do you need explaining? That doesnt even make sense.
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Face the facts -- you've bought into a sham and a fraud. The numbers do not mean what the partisan shills have told you they mean.

Paul Austin said:
No tax being significant in a number of cases. Some of the more high profile cases even explaining it themselves on tv & in the papers.
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The predicted anecdotes. The same sorts of attention-seeking hacks and partisans will be found anywhere and at any time. The goobers who cried that they were closing their businesses or firing 135 workers because Obama was re-elected all got on TV or in the papers too. Amazing how that happens, isn't it?

Paul Austin said:
Dude you keep obsessing about the US economy but the UK isnt in the US.
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It's a multinational thing. You'll recall that I bundled the UK story with carbon copies published in this country concerning Oregon, New York City, and Maryland. The gamut of them amount to so much rubbish.
 
Cardinal Fang said:
Face the facts -- you've bought into a sham and a fraud. The numbers do not mean what the partisan shills have told you they mean.
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Which partisans would they be?

The ones on the right, or the ones on the left?

They both loved this story.

You see in your rush to make up your story, & defend it, without checking any facts, you missed the point that, apart from you who is making up a fantasy & trying to deny this story, everyone else, left, right & center has been trying to make political capital out of it.

The right point to a number of millionaires leaving, & the tax hike & say the left are naughty for raising taxes & killing the economy.

Meanwhile on the left, they point to the absent millionaires and scream tax evasion & demand tax laws are strengthened & loopholes closed, because its killing the economy.

So which partisans do you think Im listening to, or do you just not have a clue about this at all?

The predicted anecdotes. The same sorts of attention-seeking hacks and partisans will be found anywhere and at any time. The goobers who cried that they were closing their businesses or firing 135 workers because Obama was re-elected all got on TV or in the papers too. Amazing how that happens, isn't it?
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Not really, but the point is they exist, proving you talk crap.

So, now that Ive generously given you both sides of the story, are you going to finish with your fairytales?
 
Paul Austin said:
Which partisans would they be?
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Specifically, the ones at The Telegraph, since they are the basis of the thread.

Paul Austin said:
The ones on the right, or the ones on the left? They both loved this story. You see in your rush to make up your story, & defend it, without checking any facts, you missed the point that, apart from you who is making up a fantasy & trying to deny this story, everyone else, left, right & center has been trying to make political capital out of it. The right point to a number of millionaires leaving, & the tax hike & say the left are naughty for raising taxes & killing the economy. Meanwhile on the left, they point to the absent millionaires and scream tax evasion & demand tax laws are strengthened & loopholes closed, because its killing the economy.
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The sound of pigs squealing is about the same no matter which direction it comes from. The data DO NOT mean what ANY of them are trying to tell you. Rich people are not abandoning this blessed plot, this earth, this England over a few pennies worth of tax, and the rich are not at all treasonous vermin for paying less tax as their incomes fell as part of a great global economic collapse that was engineered after all by the incompetence of Americans.

Paul Austin said:
Not really, but the point is they exist, proving you talk crap.
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I previously TOLD YOU that some actually have died, and that others actually have left for dozens of different reasons, taxes being not significant among them. That one such can be found or even two would not undo the thought. You may raise up as many as a smattering of such, put them all on TV, and they will still be of no consequence whatsoever on the broad canvas of what is actually going on here.

Paul Austin said:
So, now that Ive generously given you both sides of the story, are you going to finish with your fairytales?
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Those who refuse to face a plain and stark reality are the delaers in fairy tales. Whether you fell for the OP's counter-factual spin or for some other equally flawed version of it, you have a good deal of waking up to do.
 
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Cardinal Fang said:
Specifically, the ones at The Telegraph, since they are the basis of the thread
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Wheres your proof Ive listened to them above any other?

Or is that another of your made up fairytales.

The sound of pigs squealing is about the same no matter which direction it comes from. The data DO NOT mean what ANY of them are trying to tell you.
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The right, the left, the center, everyone in the UK is lying, & only you have the secret truth, except you didnt even know the number of millionaires had gone up?

Now let me see, who should I believe?

I previously TOLD YOU that some actually have died, and that others actually have left for dozens of different reasons, taxes being not significant among them
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Yes, youve told me a lot of things. The trouble is you made most of it up.
.

That one such exists or even two would not undo the thought.
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But we are not talking about one or two.

Those who refuse to face a plain and stark reality are the delaers in fairy tales. Whether you fell for the OP's counter-factual spin or for some other equally flawed version of it, you have a good deal of waking up to do.
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You really are a fantasist arent you?

Im going to have to remember this in future threads... you like to make things up.

Ive caught you now so I know to watch for it.
 
Paul Austin said:
Ive caught you now so I know to watch for it.
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LOL! You've caught nothing. It's all gone right over your head. So go ahead and believe the swill if you like. It's probably not fatal. Except to any pretense of comprehension of course.
 
Cardinal Fang said:
LOL! You've caught nothing. It's all gone right over your head. So go ahead and believe the swill if you like. It's probably not fatal. Except to any pretense of comprehension of course.
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No. You came into this thread wanting this story to be untrue based upon your domestic partisan hackery & made up a fairytale & caught by a local.

Then in a pathetic attempt to cover up your deciet you claimed an entire nation was ignorant & only you had the answers.

I caught you & Ill be watching every thread you turn up in & will call you out everytime you make things up.

Its public now. We know your game.
 
Paschendale said:
So then why are these people still allowed to benefit from their earnings in the UK? If they leave to avoid taxes in their home country, then they should not be allowed to profit from any holdings they have there. It's that simple. If you want to benefit, you have to put back in. If you abandon your nation, then your nation takes back everything it gave you, and people retain everything they built to help you get rich. Nations and the people in them are not for plundering by a few powerful vultures.

This is part of the trend for the upper upper class to remove themselves from the community of the rest of the world, employing hush hush banks in one nation, holding companies in another, and hiring workers in yet another. These people have no loyalty to anyone but themselves, and clearly have no loyalty to any of the people they're interacting with along the way. No nation should house or protect them, and their holdings should be sacrificed. If they won't show loyalty to anyone else, then no one should show loyalty to them.
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Well you see that is the conundrum isnt it? They feel no loyalty to their country because their country has no loyalty to them. Loyalty is a two way street. By the way they dont need protecting they can take care of themselves just fine. Most of the wealthy didnt get that way by being stupid. The more you sqeeze the fist, the more that escape it. You dont seem to realize they dont NEED you.
 
buck said:
I read a story not too long ago about how there is a very large number of expensive houses on the market in the UK. Millionaires are leaving and selling their houses. So, is your contention then that they are carrying this charade far enough where they give up their nice house to go live in a tenement?
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Yes... they were selling their homes to... corporations set up in tax havens, owned by.... themselves. That way they could avoid certain taxes on the home and not need to pay income tax in the UK, but of course they were still staying in those homes. It is a loophole that is being investigated right now.
 
The article in the OP has some weaksauce for evidence.
They only looked at how much money people were claiming on their taxes rather than if people actually moved. There's no accounting for people who moved their money around differently in response to the new tax structure.
The author takes some data and draws conclusions which may or may not be true, but which cannot be reliably drawn from the data presented.

I'd do more research before I posted such a hypothesis online.
But I seem to be pickier about facts, and logic than some politicians seem to be. I'ma dork like that sometimes..


When we're seeing what we want to believe, it's harder to remember that we might not be seeing what we think we're seeing. imho, anyway. ymmv

300_203477.jpg



If anyone is actually interested, the data are out there
:shrug:
 
Cardinal Fang said:
LOL! You've caught nothing. It's all gone right over your head. So go ahead and believe the swill if you like. It's probably not fatal. Except to any pretense of comprehension of course.
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Prove it dickhead. How the **** would you know what has or has not gone over anyone's head?

For you to be able to say 'it's all gone right over your head' - then you would have to have direct access to his brain. Since you obviously do not, then you either just lied or are staggeringly ignorant.

I mean, why would you make such a monumentally stupid statement?

i assume because you enjoy insulting people but don't have the guts to it face-to-face in the real world. So you come here and do it hidden behind a computer you emotionally-disturbed, self-centered, ignorant troll?


Have a nice day.

Btw - I am not drunk or stoned...I am enjoying freedom of speech before I get banned (though the mods will obviously erase this post - must only have good speak on PF)

I have long wanted to tell the pathetic loser that is Cardinal Fang off. That day has now come...lol.

Good day all.
 
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Paul Austin said:
No. You came into this thread wanting this story to be untrue based upon your domestic partisan hackery & made up a fairytale & caught by a local.
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I came to the thread because of its eerie harkening back to other dumb threads like it in the past, all of them based on a total fiction. And sure enough, people had bought into the phony propaganda meme once again. Lots of them. It's pure manufactured rubbish. There is no such thing as tax-based migratory patterns. Wealthy people in particular do not make locational decisions based on taxes, and they do not pull up long-established stakes and go off to homestead elsewhere because they lose a few cents at the margin. People who can be scared off by a loss of a few cents at the margin do not tend to become wealthy in the first place. Taxes are one small and typically inconsequential number in an ocean of more important data that drive the location decisions of companies and of individuals and households. When they come into play at all, taxes tend to serve as a tie- or close-call-breaker between the two or three final choices that all the other factors have whittled things down to. The fact that some will fall sheepishly for so transparently counterfactual a fraud as the one put forward in the OP is simply a matter of ignorance, and as we know, ignorance knows no boundaries and can strike anywhere.

Paul Austin said:
Then in a pathetic attempt to cover up your deciet you claimed an entire nation was ignorant & only you had the answers.
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Wrong is wrong, no matter where it surfaces, and I'll beat that nation's trashier newspapers time after time. They assure that there will be little enough challenge in that.

Paul Austin said:
I caught you & Ill be watching every thread you turn up in & will call you out everytime you make things up. Its public now. We know your game.
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You can't imagine the fear this strikes in my heart.
 
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Cardinal Fang said:
I came to the thread because of its eerie harkening back to other dumb threads like it in the past, all of them based on a total fiction.
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You mean sort of like your made up story in this thread?

I deleted the next bit because it was just you making things up again.


Wrong is wrong, no matter where it surfaces
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Indeed, & as we've seen in this thread wrong surfaces in virtually every post you make.


and I'll beat that nation's trashier newspapers time after time. They assure that there will be little enough challenge in that.
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Firstly you make a fool of yourself when you make such claims, secondly its not the "trashier" newspapers its ALL of them, & everyone else too.

You couldnt even be honest about that bit.

Still, keep bumping the thread, that way more & more people can read it & see you like to make things up, including your delusion that you know more than an entire country, even though you didnt even know the number of millionaires went up.

Even the "trashier" newspapers knew that...
 
blaxshep said:
I think what people are missing is that there is a difference between being successful and being rich.

One should be honored and the other despised.
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I apologize as I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, I just now came across your response.


Why is success to be honored and being rich is to be despised? Could you please clarify this for me?
 
PirateMk1 said:
Well you see that is the conundrum isnt it? They feel no loyalty to their country because their country has no loyalty to them. Loyalty is a two way street. By the way they dont need protecting they can take care of themselves just fine. Most of the wealthy didnt get that way by being stupid. The more you sqeeze the fist, the more that escape it. You dont seem to realize they dont NEED you.
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That is entirely valid... if you can actually believe that slightly higher taxes, to alleviate substantial problems the nation is having, means a lack of loyalty. Seriously, nobody actually suggests taxing the rich enough to make them even stop getting richer, let alone get poorer. No part of the lifestyle of the wealthy is threatened by these sorts of moves. Especially since the big trends in the last few decades were to drop their taxes and take off a lot of leashes that restricted them in business. Most of the "anti-rich" moves are just to undo the gifts they were given over the last few decades, which turned out to have serious consequences. This is true in the US, and it's true in Europe.

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to take the position that "not being able to get as rich as quickly" amounts to disloyalty, while "let your children die so that we can keep giving more money to the rich instead of paying for universal healthcare" is not.

Of course, when you act like a spoiled child and whine about how you can't constantly get more goodies, why should anyone be loyal to you?
 
Paschendale said:
That is entirely valid... if you can actually believe that slightly higher taxes, to alleviate substantial problems the nation is having, means a lack of loyalty.
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Thats assuming that these higher taxes are actually to alleviate substantial problems.
 
Penderyn said:
What higher taxes?
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Yeah. Higher taxes often just means higher spending on something that nobody wants anyway.

People make it sound like its such a good thing for the average man, but then theyll pump the cash into some poncey opera company or something, & say they need to cut a further £10 billion from the welfare budget.

That sure isnt alleviating anything. Thats just pissing money away.
 
Paul Austin said:
Yeah. Higher taxes often just means higher spending on something that nobody wants anyway.

People make it sound like its such a good thing for the average man, but then theyll pump the cash into some poncey opera company or something, & say they need to cut a further £10 billion from the welfare budget.

That sure isnt alleviating anything. Thats just pissing money away.
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So then the problem isn't taxes. It's too much money given to non-essential special interests. That's absolutely an issue that merits discussion, and serious reactions. But throwing a temper tantrum over taxes is just childish.
 
Paschendale said:
That is entirely valid... if you can actually believe that slightly higher taxes, to alleviate substantial problems the nation is having, means a lack of loyalty. Seriously, nobody actually suggests taxing the rich enough to make them even stop getting richer, let alone get poorer. No part of the lifestyle of the wealthy is threatened by these sorts of moves. Especially since the big trends in the last few decades were to drop their taxes and take off a lot of leashes that restricted them in business. Most of the "anti-rich" moves are just to undo the gifts they were given over the last few decades, which turned out to have serious consequences. This is true in the US, and it's true in Europe.

It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to take the position that "not being able to get as rich as quickly" amounts to disloyalty, while "let your children die so that we can keep giving more money to the rich instead of paying for universal healthcare" is not.

Of course, when you act like a spoiled child and whine about how you can't constantly get more goodies, why should anyone be loyal to you?
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Sounds like they are being adults when they just up and leave. They dont require you or I. They dont require loyalty. I am in the "one percent". You wouldnt know it to look at my house, or my beat up ford ranger, you only get a hint from my triumph spitfire. The only real way you would know would be to look at my combined account statements. I invest part of my money into my business and other investments about half and the rest goes to my living expences which are pretty low compared with every other "middle class" and my hobbies. My hobby being amatuer rocketry. It is a very precise and expensive hobby. It subsitutes for not being an aerospace engineer at Boeing or Lockheed. I support a lot of people and their livelyhoods with it. The carbon fiber manufacturer, the machine tool companies, the skilled labor, the labratories, the weights and measures people the metals and materials people, the insurance people, the range land owners. I support all those and a whole lot more. With my "hobby". I make no money off my hobby. None. I support it with my business. The more I get taxed the less I can support. The more I get regulated the less I can support. Whether you like it or not everything has a cost. The more you tax or regulate the higher the costs. People dont stand still. They adjust. The problem being they will adjust to their benifit, which reduces the take and raises the cost of the tax or regulation still further. I will adjust until I cant. Then I have to consider my options. One of those options is moving. I live in California. They are regulating and taxing us into oblivion. My state wonders why people are picking up and leaving. I like my state, I am a Californian at heart. I dont want to move. But when the state wants more and more every year, you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall. We used to have the largest Aerospace manufacturing base in all the world. Now just some scattered companies. I would like to be able to continue pursuing my happiness with my hobby, as it besides my familiy makes me happy. But everyday it seems that I will be going the way of the Aerospace companies that once thrived here. It depresses me to see that.
 
Paschendale said:
So then the problem isn't taxes. It's too much money given to non-essential special interests. That's absolutely an issue that merits discussion, and serious reactions. But throwing a temper tantrum over taxes is just childish.
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Not if its your money, & could make a significant difference. There is a myth that everyone has spare cash floating around but in a lot of cases people dont, so if offered a tax hike, that could force a person to scale back investment in their company, that could cause the loss of contracts, & possibly put the company out of bussiness, costing hundreds their jobs, or contributing to some wasteful government spending, I could easily see a man being annoyed.

Its very easy to be cavalier with someone elses money, but most people become a lot more conservative when its their own money.

Cutting government waste should be the first step, then you know how much you really need, & can tax at appropriate levels.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Sounds like they are being adults when they just up and leave. They dont require you or I. They dont require loyalty. I am in the "one percent". You wouldnt know it to look at my house, or my beat up ford ranger, you only get a hint from my triumph spitfire. The only real way you would know would be to look at my combined account statements. I invest part of my money into my business and other investments about half and the rest goes to my living expences which are pretty low compared with every other "middle class" and my hobbies. My hobby being amatuer rocketry. It is a very precise and expensive hobby. It subsitutes for not being an aerospace engineer at Boeing or Lockheed. I support a lot of people and their livelyhoods with it. The carbon fiber manufacturer, the machine tool companies, the skilled labor, the labratories, the weights and measures people the metals and materials people, the insurance people, the range land owners. I support all those and a whole lot more. With my "hobby". I make no money off my hobby. None. I support it with my business. The more I get taxed the less I can support. The more I get regulated the less I can support. Whether you like it or not everything has a cost. The more you tax or regulate the higher the costs. People dont stand still. They adjust. The problem being they will adjust to their benifit, which reduces the take and raises the cost of the tax or regulation still further. I will adjust until I cant. Then I have to consider my options. One of those options is moving. I live in California. They are regulating and taxing us into oblivion. My state wonders why people are picking up and leaving. I like my state, I am a Californian at heart. I dont want to move. But when the state wants more and more every year, you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall. We used to have the largest Aerospace manufacturing base in all the world. Now just some scattered companies. I would like to be able to continue pursuing my happiness with my hobby, as it besides my familiy makes me happy. But everyday it seems that I will be going the way of the Aerospace companies that once thrived here. It depresses me to see that.
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I havent seen a Triumph Spitfire in years!

They were fun cars.
 
Paul Austin said:
Cutting government waste should be the first step, then you know how much you really need, & can tax at appropriate levels.
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Wrong...

First step is to figure out what you want your government to do. Most countries know this already. Yes it changes over time, but the basics are known.
Second step is to cut as much waste as possible or/and prevent it. Most countries are doing this, but yes it is a battle like no other. Special interests... suck.
Third is to set tax rates accordingly so there is no deficit (or very little). Most countries have good tax rates that conform to the expenditure.. under normal economic climate. Problem now at the moment is of course it is not "normal economic climate" and hence the need to tweak the tax rates.
And then comes the important part.. to make sure that every citizen and company pays the taxes that they are suppose to.

It is the last step, that is seriously lacking in many countries and it only relates to companies and the wealthy in the UK and most other countries (this does not mean Greece). Why only corporations and the wealthy? Because average Joe who avoids to pay his taxes goes to jail... where as companies and the wealthy do not.

Fact is when a corporation like Starbucks has sales of 1.2 billion pounds (1.8 billion or so dollars) in a year, and pays next to no taxes because officially according to the accountants the UK operations of Starbucks is loss making... yea right.... what they did was move the profits across borders to Luxembourg by calling them administrative and get them taxed there, at a much much lower rate... for sales done in the UK.. pathetic! then you know you have a system that is unfair and catering to corporations. You are basically pushing the burden from corporations onto the poor and middle class from companies that could feed many hundreds of thousands if not million of people with their yearly profits.

And then you have the wealthy in the UK and around the world, being able to move around their money and assets to the best tax havens money can buy, and most of the earnings are done in places like the UK and US, but the taxes are paid elsewhere. There are so many tax avoidance scams going on that the tax man cant keep up and the only ones that can use these scams are the wealthy, because they have the money to pay accountants to first figure out these scams and then exploit them. Yes tax systems are holed like swiss cheese often and that is the fault of the politicians, but it does not change the fact that the wealthy often do not pay their fair share of the tax burden and THAT is a major problem.

Also to be back on topic, the UK is a rich man's tax haven... London have more billionaires living there full time than any other city on the planet.. they of course dont pay taxes, but hey they do buy very expensive homes and spend on luxuries!
 
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