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Thread: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

  1. #91
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Well you see that is the conundrum isnt it? They feel no loyalty to their country because their country has no loyalty to them. Loyalty is a two way street. By the way they dont need protecting they can take care of themselves just fine. Most of the wealthy didnt get that way by being stupid. The more you sqeeze the fist, the more that escape it. You dont seem to realize they dont NEED you.
    That is entirely valid... if you can actually believe that slightly higher taxes, to alleviate substantial problems the nation is having, means a lack of loyalty. Seriously, nobody actually suggests taxing the rich enough to make them even stop getting richer, let alone get poorer. No part of the lifestyle of the wealthy is threatened by these sorts of moves. Especially since the big trends in the last few decades were to drop their taxes and take off a lot of leashes that restricted them in business. Most of the "anti-rich" moves are just to undo the gifts they were given over the last few decades, which turned out to have serious consequences. This is true in the US, and it's true in Europe.

    It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to take the position that "not being able to get as rich as quickly" amounts to disloyalty, while "let your children die so that we can keep giving more money to the rich instead of paying for universal healthcare" is not.

    Of course, when you act like a spoiled child and whine about how you can't constantly get more goodies, why should anyone be loyal to you?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    You're equivocating the govt w/ the country afaict.
    And?

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    That is entirely valid... if you can actually believe that slightly higher taxes, to alleviate substantial problems the nation is having, means a lack of loyalty.
    Thats assuming that these higher taxes are actually to alleviate substantial problems.

  4. #94
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Thats assuming that these higher taxes are actually to alleviate substantial problems.
    What higher taxes? As you know, rich scumbags pay no taxes here.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    What higher taxes?
    Yeah. Higher taxes often just means higher spending on something that nobody wants anyway.

    People make it sound like its such a good thing for the average man, but then theyll pump the cash into some poncey opera company or something, & say they need to cut a further £10 billion from the welfare budget.

    That sure isnt alleviating anything. Thats just pissing money away.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Yeah. Higher taxes often just means higher spending on something that nobody wants anyway.

    People make it sound like its such a good thing for the average man, but then theyll pump the cash into some poncey opera company or something, & say they need to cut a further £10 billion from the welfare budget.

    That sure isnt alleviating anything. Thats just pissing money away.
    So then the problem isn't taxes. It's too much money given to non-essential special interests. That's absolutely an issue that merits discussion, and serious reactions. But throwing a temper tantrum over taxes is just childish.
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    That is entirely valid... if you can actually believe that slightly higher taxes, to alleviate substantial problems the nation is having, means a lack of loyalty. Seriously, nobody actually suggests taxing the rich enough to make them even stop getting richer, let alone get poorer. No part of the lifestyle of the wealthy is threatened by these sorts of moves. Especially since the big trends in the last few decades were to drop their taxes and take off a lot of leashes that restricted them in business. Most of the "anti-rich" moves are just to undo the gifts they were given over the last few decades, which turned out to have serious consequences. This is true in the US, and it's true in Europe.

    It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to take the position that "not being able to get as rich as quickly" amounts to disloyalty, while "let your children die so that we can keep giving more money to the rich instead of paying for universal healthcare" is not.

    Of course, when you act like a spoiled child and whine about how you can't constantly get more goodies, why should anyone be loyal to you?
    Sounds like they are being adults when they just up and leave. They dont require you or I. They dont require loyalty. I am in the "one percent". You wouldnt know it to look at my house, or my beat up ford ranger, you only get a hint from my triumph spitfire. The only real way you would know would be to look at my combined account statements. I invest part of my money into my business and other investments about half and the rest goes to my living expences which are pretty low compared with every other "middle class" and my hobbies. My hobby being amatuer rocketry. It is a very precise and expensive hobby. It subsitutes for not being an aerospace engineer at Boeing or Lockheed. I support a lot of people and their livelyhoods with it. The carbon fiber manufacturer, the machine tool companies, the skilled labor, the labratories, the weights and measures people the metals and materials people, the insurance people, the range land owners. I support all those and a whole lot more. With my "hobby". I make no money off my hobby. None. I support it with my business. The more I get taxed the less I can support. The more I get regulated the less I can support. Whether you like it or not everything has a cost. The more you tax or regulate the higher the costs. People dont stand still. They adjust. The problem being they will adjust to their benifit, which reduces the take and raises the cost of the tax or regulation still further. I will adjust until I cant. Then I have to consider my options. One of those options is moving. I live in California. They are regulating and taxing us into oblivion. My state wonders why people are picking up and leaving. I like my state, I am a Californian at heart. I dont want to move. But when the state wants more and more every year, you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall. We used to have the largest Aerospace manufacturing base in all the world. Now just some scattered companies. I would like to be able to continue pursuing my happiness with my hobby, as it besides my familiy makes me happy. But everyday it seems that I will be going the way of the Aerospace companies that once thrived here. It depresses me to see that.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So then the problem isn't taxes. It's too much money given to non-essential special interests. That's absolutely an issue that merits discussion, and serious reactions. But throwing a temper tantrum over taxes is just childish.
    Not if its your money, & could make a significant difference. There is a myth that everyone has spare cash floating around but in a lot of cases people dont, so if offered a tax hike, that could force a person to scale back investment in their company, that could cause the loss of contracts, & possibly put the company out of bussiness, costing hundreds their jobs, or contributing to some wasteful government spending, I could easily see a man being annoyed.

    Its very easy to be cavalier with someone elses money, but most people become a lot more conservative when its their own money.

    Cutting government waste should be the first step, then you know how much you really need, & can tax at appropriate levels.

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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Sounds like they are being adults when they just up and leave. They dont require you or I. They dont require loyalty. I am in the "one percent". You wouldnt know it to look at my house, or my beat up ford ranger, you only get a hint from my triumph spitfire. The only real way you would know would be to look at my combined account statements. I invest part of my money into my business and other investments about half and the rest goes to my living expences which are pretty low compared with every other "middle class" and my hobbies. My hobby being amatuer rocketry. It is a very precise and expensive hobby. It subsitutes for not being an aerospace engineer at Boeing or Lockheed. I support a lot of people and their livelyhoods with it. The carbon fiber manufacturer, the machine tool companies, the skilled labor, the labratories, the weights and measures people the metals and materials people, the insurance people, the range land owners. I support all those and a whole lot more. With my "hobby". I make no money off my hobby. None. I support it with my business. The more I get taxed the less I can support. The more I get regulated the less I can support. Whether you like it or not everything has a cost. The more you tax or regulate the higher the costs. People dont stand still. They adjust. The problem being they will adjust to their benifit, which reduces the take and raises the cost of the tax or regulation still further. I will adjust until I cant. Then I have to consider my options. One of those options is moving. I live in California. They are regulating and taxing us into oblivion. My state wonders why people are picking up and leaving. I like my state, I am a Californian at heart. I dont want to move. But when the state wants more and more every year, you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see the writing on the wall. We used to have the largest Aerospace manufacturing base in all the world. Now just some scattered companies. I would like to be able to continue pursuing my happiness with my hobby, as it besides my familiy makes me happy. But everyday it seems that I will be going the way of the Aerospace companies that once thrived here. It depresses me to see that.
    I havent seen a Triumph Spitfire in years!

    They were fun cars.

  10. #100
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    Re: Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Austin View Post
    Cutting government waste should be the first step, then you know how much you really need, & can tax at appropriate levels.
    Wrong...

    First step is to figure out what you want your government to do. Most countries know this already. Yes it changes over time, but the basics are known.
    Second step is to cut as much waste as possible or/and prevent it. Most countries are doing this, but yes it is a battle like no other. Special interests... suck.
    Third is to set tax rates accordingly so there is no deficit (or very little). Most countries have good tax rates that conform to the expenditure.. under normal economic climate. Problem now at the moment is of course it is not "normal economic climate" and hence the need to tweak the tax rates.
    And then comes the important part.. to make sure that every citizen and company pays the taxes that they are suppose to.

    It is the last step, that is seriously lacking in many countries and it only relates to companies and the wealthy in the UK and most other countries (this does not mean Greece). Why only corporations and the wealthy? Because average Joe who avoids to pay his taxes goes to jail... where as companies and the wealthy do not.

    Fact is when a corporation like Starbucks has sales of 1.2 billion pounds (1.8 billion or so dollars) in a year, and pays next to no taxes because officially according to the accountants the UK operations of Starbucks is loss making... yea right.... what they did was move the profits across borders to Luxembourg by calling them administrative and get them taxed there, at a much much lower rate... for sales done in the UK.. pathetic! then you know you have a system that is unfair and catering to corporations. You are basically pushing the burden from corporations onto the poor and middle class from companies that could feed many hundreds of thousands if not million of people with their yearly profits.

    And then you have the wealthy in the UK and around the world, being able to move around their money and assets to the best tax havens money can buy, and most of the earnings are done in places like the UK and US, but the taxes are paid elsewhere. There are so many tax avoidance scams going on that the tax man cant keep up and the only ones that can use these scams are the wealthy, because they have the money to pay accountants to first figure out these scams and then exploit them. Yes tax systems are holed like swiss cheese often and that is the fault of the politicians, but it does not change the fact that the wealthy often do not pay their fair share of the tax burden and THAT is a major problem.

    Also to be back on topic, the UK is a rich man's tax haven... London have more billionaires living there full time than any other city on the planet.. they of course dont pay taxes, but hey they do buy very expensive homes and spend on luxuries!
    Last edited by PeteEU; 12-01-12 at 05:02 PM.
    PeteEU

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