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Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

Maybe a lot of the imported Obama supporters that really, really care about the United States were imported into his district. This would cause his original base to move out and so Mr. Chambliss has to go through an evolution in thinking. He would have to shift from an adult balanced budget philosophy to an infantile Santa Claus philosophy.

Chambliss is a Sentaor, so his district is the entire state. Since it's a red state and has been for some time, apparently these illegal Mexicans didn't do their job and vote for Obama.

Fail level: EPIC.
 
If he was only concerned with keeping his seat I would think the last thing he would want to do is cross Norquist and possibly provoke a Tea Party primary challenge.
Chambliss is a Sentaor, so his district is the entire state. Since it's a red state and has been for some time, apparently these illegal Mexicans didn't do their job and vote for Obama.

Fail level: EPIC.
Right. He must feel pretty secure in his continued position.

That, or he plans on retiring at the end of his current/next term and just hasn't announced it yet.

There is the third possibility that maybe, just maybe, he honestly does believe that it is time to do something different for the good of the country overall, but I'll be honest and say that my own cynicism* puts that possibility way behind the other two.

*- Cynicism about politicians at this level, in general. I openly admit I am not familiar with this guy specifically.
 
If he was only concerned with keeping his seat I would think the last thing he would want to do is cross Norquist and possibly provoke a Tea Party primary challenge.

Georgia isn't as hard core red as you think.
Not only that but the fiscal cliff going ahead, would piss a ton of his voters off.
 
And Grover the Jackass Norquist has laid down the gauntlet on all these Repubs going against him...


Norquist says he'll go after pledge-breakers

Anti-tax activist Grover Norquist said Monday that his group, Americans for Tax Reform, would work to unseat Republicans who break their pledge to never vote for higher taxes.

His vow came after prominent GOP lawmakers said over the weekend they would consider breaking the Taxpayer Protection Pledge in order to reach a deal with Democrats and President Barack Obama to avoid tumbling over the fiscal cliff – the combination of sweeping spending cuts and tax increases that would go into effect at the end of the year if negotiators can't reach a deal on reducing the federal debt.​
 
Georgia isn't as hard core red as you think.
Not only that but the fiscal cliff going ahead, would piss a ton of his voters off.
I believe some Reps are acknowledging the reality of the situation.

And Grover the Jackass Norquist has laid down the gauntlet on all these Repubs going against him...

Norquist says he'll go after pledge-breakers

Anti-tax activist Grover Norquist said Monday that his group, Americans for Tax Reform, would work to unseat Republicans who break their pledge to never vote for higher taxes.

His vow came after prominent GOP lawmakers said over the weekend they would consider breaking the Taxpayer Protection Pledge in order to reach a deal with Democrats and President Barack Obama to avoid tumbling over the fiscal cliff – the combination of sweeping spending cuts and tax increases that would go into effect at the end of the year if negotiators can't reach a deal on reducing the federal debt.​
I wonder if this is the beginning of Norquist experiencing a McCarthyism-like downfall?
 
I believe some Reps are acknowledging the reality of the situation.


I wonder if this is the beginning of Norquist experiencing a McCarthyism-like downfall?

It's a helluva pinch for the GOP. They lost badly in an election they should've made gains in so they are trying to adapt to gain more votes, meanwhile Norquist is holding the financial status quo for the GOP and is trying to force them NOT to change one bit. It'll be interesting to see who wins.
 
It's a helluva pinch for the GOP. They lost badly in an election they should've made gains in so they are trying to adapt to gain more votes, meanwhile Norquist is holding the financial status quo for the GOP and is trying to force them NOT to change one bit. It'll be interesting to see who wins.
According to tonight's network news, about 1/3 of the new Reps have refused to sign the pledge. I say "good for them". I don't want a representative who is backed into a corner to such a degree that they cannot make the hard choices that are sometimes needed.
 
According to tonight's network news, about 1/3 of the new Reps have refused to sign the pledge. I say "good for them". I don't want a representative who is backed into a corner to such a degree that they cannot make the hard choices that are sometimes needed.

Okay... so here's the connection in my conspiracy about Norquist... His group is "Americans for Tax Reform" which is tied to ALEC... It's a HUGE Koch brothers front with loads of other corporate heads donating to it. Also found this:


Affiliations: Americans for Tax Reform Foundation is the education and research arm of ATR. ATR is a member of the State Policy Network and of townhall.com, a right-wing Internet portal founded by the Heritage Foundation.​


The more one looks into the right-wing echo chamber, the more it leads back to the same folks each time.


In 2007, Heritage reported an operating revenue of $75.0 million dollars. As of February 2011, Heritage reported 710,000 supporters.[42] Heritage Foundation is also a part of the Koch Foundation Associate Program.​
 
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We're bankrupting our children's futures. They will be enslaved to debt. Your parents didn't do that to you, but Obama and the people who voted for him are doing that to our kids now. It's shameful and immoral.

Obama is running yearly deficits of more than a trillion dollars. All this class warfare garbage is nothing more than a strawman. The Federal Government spends nearly 10 billion dollars a day. It's not sustainable. Instead of talking about Entitlement and Spending Reform, the argument is we tax the hell out of the goose that is laying the golden egg because it's not fair that the goose exists in the first place. The golden goose is evil because Obama said it was evil, pretends he cares, and that he is going to give you something for free. It's the oldest con in the book. Meanwhile George Kaiser counts his millions and gets richer, as the companies headed by all of Obama's cronies dodge taxes (GE) or are legislated monopolies by Big Government.

Obama is spending 5.60$ for every 1 dollar of real gdp wealth generated in the private economy. His solution? Tax the people generated that 1 dollar of Real GDP Wealth even more. The Atheist Socialists who currently control Pop Culture, The Media, and the WH have people emotionally chasing Big Bird and Binders for Women while they rob you and your children blind.
 
Thats pretty much it. This country doesn't have a revenue problem, the wealthy (both individuals and corporations) shoulder the lion share of federal contributions. We have a spending problem.

Frankly, I like the compromise floating around. Tax rates will return to the Clinton era as a long as spending does the same. Is that a "balanced approach?"

First off, corporations are playing a diminishing role in paying US income taxes. The notion that corporations pay the tax freight, while a romantic fantasy, is just wrong.

Sources of tax revenue.jpg

We should be lowering the tax rates but drastically eliminating loopholes, particularly cracking down on transfer pricing, which allows companies to off-shore profits through creative cost and revenue allocation schemes.

taxanalysts.com: Featured Articles -- International Tax Planning: A Guide for Journalists

But I am with you on returning to Clinton spending.... what a cool idea!

Let's see... in 2000, the last year of the balanced budget, on-budget expenditures (not including social security) were $1.48T. But, that was 12 years ago, and we are looking at the 2013 budget, so call it 13 years.... so, if we adjust that at the rate of 3% per annum to conservatively account for inflation and the growth in US population, then that Clinton number would be $2.15T. The actual expenditures for 2011 (not including SS) were $3.10T, so we are looking at cutting $1T of expenditure.

Historical Tables | The White House (see Table 1.1)

Let's see, if we start at the largest discretionary item.... that would be the military. We spent $354B on the military in 2000. Using our inflation formula above, well that would translate to $520B in 2013..... but wait, we actually spent $711B in 2011.... so we have quickly come up with $200B in cuts or solved 20% of the problem... with $800B to go.... wait, our tax cuts only changing the highest marginal rate is worth $80B... throw in a tax on interest and dividends over $100K and you have another $80B and suddenly we have solved 36% of the problem without too much sweat. Now that we are this far in, finding another $360B out of entitlement restructuring, though painful, is likely doable, and then your deficit is down to very manageable levels that can be cured by economic growth (and a more efficient corporate tax system that actually collects income taxes from corporations)...

Of course, if my growth estimate is actually too conservative and the number should be 4%, then target expenditures would be $2.425T and we would have to cut $600B out of the budget to balance it... and defense could only be cut by $100T of that, leaving $500B to figure out (of which our tax changes would solve a large part of the problem).

BTW... the current on-budget tax receipts estimate for 2013 (not including payroll taxes) is $2.3T...
 
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I believe some Reps are acknowledging the reality of the situation.

This specific situation just give him the benefit of looking good and "doing the right thing" even though that really isn't his prerogative.
I've seen this guy function for years.

He's just an opportunist, imo.
 
That seems to be the norm in DC.

You know there are over 600k of us here, and around 6 million in the metro area, and this guy isn't even from here, he is from Georgia. If you want to accurate, you probably should just say politicians, after all I am sure plenty of scumbags are in Austin, Burlington, Richmond, etc.
 
This specific situation just give him the benefit of looking good and "doing the right thing" even though that really isn't his prerogative.
I've seen this guy function for years.

He's just an opportunist, imo.
My comment is more general, and I will defer to you regarding this specific person. I am not familiar with Chambliss. I have no problem believing some (many?) politicians are opportunists.
 
This specific situation just give him the benefit of looking good and "doing the right thing" even though that really isn't his prerogative.
I've seen this guy function for years.

He's just an opportunist, imo.

Norquist is just another scumbag lobbyist, and all lobbyists are worthless influence buyers.
 
First off, corporations are playing a diminishing role in paying US income taxes. The notion that corporations pay the tax freight, while a romantic fantasy, is just wrong.

You do realize that corporations or at least employers pay 50% of the payroll tax, right?
 
You do realize that corporations or at least employers pay 50% of the payroll tax, right?

As a business owner and CPA (former) of course I get that... but as noted above, I was speaking of income taxes. Corporations, in spite of a high stated marginal rate on corporate income taxes, pay less and less income tax.

That said, I am glad you have drawn the distinction that payroll taxes are paid by the employer. So many people on this board argue that its really a tax on the employee wages and therefore the incident of tax falls on the employee... which, as you point out, is goofy. Also funny, as so many here want to tell us that 47% of the population do not pay taxes, but when you point out that almost 100% of the employed pay payroll taxes they suddenly want to argue such are not real taxes... yet they are.
 
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You know there are over 600k of us here, and around 6 million in the metro area, and this guy isn't even from here, he is from Georgia. If you want to accurate, you probably should just say politicians, after all I am sure plenty of scumbags are in Austin, Burlington, Richmond, etc.

You know what I'm talking about, so unwrinkle your panties.
 
It still baffles me that this Norquist clown was able to gain so much influence to begin with.

He has a lot of rich a-holes as "friends". They don't like paying taxes and pay him handsomly to keep it so.
 
As a business owner and CPA (former) of course I get that... but as noted above, I was speaking of income taxes. Corporations, in spite of a high stated marginal rate on corporate income taxes, pay less and less income tax.

That said, I am glad you have drawn the distinction that payroll taxes are paid by the employer. So many people on this board argue that its really a tax on the employee wages and therefore the incident of tax falls on the employee... which, as you point out, is goofy. Also funny, as so many here want to tell us that 47% of the population do not pay taxes, but when you point out that almost 100% of the employed pay payroll taxes they suddenly want to argue such are not real taxes... yet they are.


47% pay no federal income tax. I believe most who've cited that stat use "federal income tax." However, payroll taxes are "supposed" to be dedicated to SS and Medicare. These programs would be infinitely solvent if those funds were left dedicated to those programs.

But back to the original, we're talking about "fair share." Currently, the wealthy individuals as well as the corporate/business world shoulder the lion's share of federal revenues. So, what's their "fair share" if they already carry the heaviest burden?
 
I wish I could believe there is a wide scale defection from Grover Norquist and his pledge...but so far there are only 16 republicans that have denounced his tax pledge...I think we will find if we looked that the lionshare of those 16 will soon face re election in districts that arent far right.
When the defections get up into the 30s and above Ill believe theres something to it.
 
47% pay no federal income tax. I believe most who've cited that stat use "federal income tax." However, payroll taxes are "supposed" to be dedicated to SS and Medicare. These programs would be infinitely solvent if those funds were left dedicated to those programs.

But back to the original, we're talking about "fair share." Currently, the wealthy individuals as well as the corporate/business world shoulder the lion's share of federal revenues. So, what's their "fair share" if they already carry the heaviest burden?

Payroll Tax Cut Unlikely to Survive Into Next Year - NYTimes.com
 
I wish I could believe there is a wide scale defection from Grover Norquist and his pledge...but so far there are only 16 republicans that have denounced his tax pledge...I think we will find if we looked that the lionshare of those 16 will soon face re election in districts that arent far right.
When the defections get up into the 30s and above Ill believe theres something to it.

I'm sure I read somewhere that some dozen or so of the newly elected had declined to sign,

This wasn't where I read it, but this item points out that pledgees ave lost their majority in the house.

Norquist pledge takes election hit (Norquist’s majority in Congress is all but gone.) - Democratic Underground
 
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I wish I could believe there is a wide scale defection from Grover Norquist and his pledge...but so far there are only 16 republicans that have denounced his tax pledge...I think we will find if we looked that the lionshare of those 16 will soon face re election in districts that arent far right.
When the defections get up into the 30s and above Ill believe theres something to it.

So when you get that $80 Billion from taxes and Obama spends it in a single week then what?
 
47% pay no federal income tax. I believe most who've cited that stat use "federal income tax." However, payroll taxes are "supposed" to be dedicated to SS and Medicare. These programs would be infinitely solvent if those funds were left dedicated to those programs.

But back to the original, we're talking about "fair share." Currently, the wealthy individuals as well as the corporate/business world shoulder the lion's share of federal revenues. So, what's their "fair share" if they already carry the heaviest burden?

Yes, 47% of persons pay no federal income taxes; but almost all workers pay payroll taxes. So, if you talking federal revenues, then you will find that we actually have a flat tax with 60% of the population having an all-in effect tax rate of between 25-32%, and 80% paying between 20-32%.

Taxes paid by income group.jpg

Of course, in this model your assertion that corporations pay a large percentage of tax is true, as 1/2 of the FICA would be attributable to them; the notion that the wealthy are paying a large percentage of tax is actually not true.... you will see from the table below that people pretty much pay the tax in proportion to income, with no one class of people carrying the freight.

Distribution of tax burden2.jpg

Now, if we want to talk pure income taxes, then 47% of the population does not pay income tax (because they are burdened with other taxes); the wealthy pay the highest share (but they have all of the discretionary income* which is what income tax is taxing) and Corporations are paying very little (they once paid 27% of total US revenue, now corporate income taxes are less than 8%).

TypeTaxVsRevenue.jpg

Corporations once paid 40% of all income taxes. They now pay 18% of income taxes

TypeTaxVsRevenue_Data1.jpg


So, back to your assertion that corporations and the wealthy pay the lion's share of tax... well, that statement is only 1/2 correct, what the correct 1/2 defined by what you mean by tax.

The wealthy pay the lion's income tax;

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?[/URL

corporations never pay a lion's share of any tax, but contribute a fair share of total tax (assuming you attribute 50% of FICA to the corporation, which is not exactly correct)

Footnote:
(* - People have this idea that income tax is designed to tax total income. It does not. The tax is designed to tax discretionary income, after the cost of living necessities have been deducted, which is why we have deductions and exemptions. This is the reason 47% of the population pays no income tax is because 47% of the population have no discretionary income. They only have sufficient income, by definition, to pay for the basics of life (food, shelter, healthcare), while the top 10% have a ton of discretionary income and hence pay more income taxes)
 
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