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Thread: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    You do realize that corporations or at least employers pay 50% of the payroll tax, right?
    As a business owner and CPA (former) of course I get that... but as noted above, I was speaking of income taxes. Corporations, in spite of a high stated marginal rate on corporate income taxes, pay less and less income tax.

    That said, I am glad you have drawn the distinction that payroll taxes are paid by the employer. So many people on this board argue that its really a tax on the employee wages and therefore the incident of tax falls on the employee... which, as you point out, is goofy. Also funny, as so many here want to tell us that 47% of the population do not pay taxes, but when you point out that almost 100% of the employed pay payroll taxes they suddenly want to argue such are not real taxes... yet they are.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-27-12 at 11:11 PM.

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by hikari View Post
    You know there are over 600k of us here, and around 6 million in the metro area, and this guy isn't even from here, he is from Georgia. If you want to accurate, you probably should just say politicians, after all I am sure plenty of scumbags are in Austin, Burlington, Richmond, etc.
    You know what I'm talking about, so unwrinkle your panties.
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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    It still baffles me that this Norquist clown was able to gain so much influence to begin with.
    He has a lot of rich a-holes as "friends". They don't like paying taxes and pay him handsomly to keep it so.

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    As a business owner and CPA (former) of course I get that... but as noted above, I was speaking of income taxes. Corporations, in spite of a high stated marginal rate on corporate income taxes, pay less and less income tax.

    That said, I am glad you have drawn the distinction that payroll taxes are paid by the employer. So many people on this board argue that its really a tax on the employee wages and therefore the incident of tax falls on the employee... which, as you point out, is goofy. Also funny, as so many here want to tell us that 47% of the population do not pay taxes, but when you point out that almost 100% of the employed pay payroll taxes they suddenly want to argue such are not real taxes... yet they are.

    47% pay no federal income tax. I believe most who've cited that stat use "federal income tax." However, payroll taxes are "supposed" to be dedicated to SS and Medicare. These programs would be infinitely solvent if those funds were left dedicated to those programs.

    But back to the original, we're talking about "fair share." Currently, the wealthy individuals as well as the corporate/business world shoulder the lion's share of federal revenues. So, what's their "fair share" if they already carry the heaviest burden?

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    I wish I could believe there is a wide scale defection from Grover Norquist and his pledge...but so far there are only 16 republicans that have denounced his tax pledge...I think we will find if we looked that the lionshare of those 16 will soon face re election in districts that arent far right.
    When the defections get up into the 30s and above Ill believe theres something to it.

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    47% pay no federal income tax. I believe most who've cited that stat use "federal income tax." However, payroll taxes are "supposed" to be dedicated to SS and Medicare. These programs would be infinitely solvent if those funds were left dedicated to those programs.

    But back to the original, we're talking about "fair share." Currently, the wealthy individuals as well as the corporate/business world shoulder the lion's share of federal revenues. So, what's their "fair share" if they already carry the heaviest burden?
    Payroll Tax Cut Unlikely to Survive Into Next Year - NYTimes.com

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I wish I could believe there is a wide scale defection from Grover Norquist and his pledge...but so far there are only 16 republicans that have denounced his tax pledge...I think we will find if we looked that the lionshare of those 16 will soon face re election in districts that arent far right.
    When the defections get up into the 30s and above Ill believe theres something to it.
    I'm sure I read somewhere that some dozen or so of the newly elected had declined to sign,

    This wasn't where I read it, but this item points out that pledgees ave lost their majority in the house.

    Norquist pledge takes election hit (Norquist’s majority in Congress is all but gone.) - Democratic Underground
    Last edited by Manc Skipper; 11-28-12 at 12:13 PM.
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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I wish I could believe there is a wide scale defection from Grover Norquist and his pledge...but so far there are only 16 republicans that have denounced his tax pledge...I think we will find if we looked that the lionshare of those 16 will soon face re election in districts that arent far right.
    When the defections get up into the 30s and above Ill believe theres something to it.
    So when you get that $80 Billion from taxes and Obama spends it in a single week then what?

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    47% pay no federal income tax. I believe most who've cited that stat use "federal income tax." However, payroll taxes are "supposed" to be dedicated to SS and Medicare. These programs would be infinitely solvent if those funds were left dedicated to those programs.

    But back to the original, we're talking about "fair share." Currently, the wealthy individuals as well as the corporate/business world shoulder the lion's share of federal revenues. So, what's their "fair share" if they already carry the heaviest burden?
    Yes, 47% of persons pay no federal income taxes; but almost all workers pay payroll taxes. So, if you talking federal revenues, then you will find that we actually have a flat tax with 60% of the population having an all-in effect tax rate of between 25-32%, and 80% paying between 20-32%.

    Taxes paid by income group.jpg

    Of course, in this model your assertion that corporations pay a large percentage of tax is true, as 1/2 of the FICA would be attributable to them; the notion that the wealthy are paying a large percentage of tax is actually not true.... you will see from the table below that people pretty much pay the tax in proportion to income, with no one class of people carrying the freight.

    Distribution of tax burden2.jpg

    Now, if we want to talk pure income taxes, then 47% of the population does not pay income tax (because they are burdened with other taxes); the wealthy pay the highest share (but they have all of the discretionary income* which is what income tax is taxing) and Corporations are paying very little (they once paid 27% of total US revenue, now corporate income taxes are less than 8%).

    TypeTaxVsRevenue.jpg

    Corporations once paid 40% of all income taxes. They now pay 18% of income taxes

    TypeTaxVsRevenue_Data1.jpg


    So, back to your assertion that corporations and the wealthy pay the lion's share of tax... well, that statement is only 1/2 correct, what the correct 1/2 defined by what you mean by tax.

    The wealthy pay the lion's income tax;

    [URL="http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html"]National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?[/URL

    corporations never pay a lion's share of any tax, but contribute a fair share of total tax (assuming you attribute 50% of FICA to the corporation, which is not exactly correct)

    Footnote:
    (* - People have this idea that income tax is designed to tax total income. It does not. The tax is designed to tax discretionary income, after the cost of living necessities have been deducted, which is why we have deductions and exemptions. This is the reason 47% of the population pays no income tax is because 47% of the population have no discretionary income. They only have sufficient income, by definition, to pay for the basics of life (food, shelter, healthcare), while the top 10% have a ton of discretionary income and hence pay more income taxes)
    Last edited by upsideguy; 11-28-12 at 01:18 PM.

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    Re: Saxby Chambliss: 'I Care A Lot More About' America Than About Grover Norquist

    Which is why Saxby Chambliss is going to be primaried out of the Senate in 2014.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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