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Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear a School-Issued RFID Tracker

Henrin said:
You can't very well correct a comment incorrectly and claim you did so correctly.

What you actually did was bring up perental locus and applied it incorrectly.
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The comment indicated that a student could leave the school at any time.
That was incorrect. My response was accurate.
 
Objective-J said:
I would agree if it was outside of school property and school hours but its not, dont you think that makes a difference? just honestly asking?
My work is set up this way but the situation is quite different because we are a secured facility.
Technically theres no privacy invasion that doesnt already exist. No need for a warrant either since its on school property. Same reason they can go through your locker.
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I don't like it, but your logic is sound.
I have gone several rounds with a teacher about locker searches and warrants, but to no avail.
Given your logic, the chip would stand up to the same tests.
 
SMTA said:
I don't like it, but your logic is sound.
I have gone several rounds with a teacher about locker searches and warrants, but to no avail.
Given your logic, the chip would stand up to the same tests.
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well im not a fan either but thats just how it is, not to mention the HUGE kicker is (at least at my kids school) every year you are notified that lockers and anything in the lockers (or inside the school) are subject to search and seizure and at any time your child could be on camera and subjected to wanding (metal detector)

now my kids school doesn't actually have metal detectors but the notice still comes out every year.

the second kicker is theres no force, im free to send my kid to another school.
 
Objective-J said:
well im not a fan either but thats just how it is, not to mention the HUGE kicker is (at least at my kids school) every year you are notified that lockers and anything in the lockers (or inside the school) are subject to search and seizure and at any time your child could be on camera and subjected to wanding (metal detector)

now my kids school doesn't actually have metal detectors but the notice still comes out every year.

the second kicker is theres no force, im free to send my kid to another school.
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Yea, I know. My battle with the locker searches and search warrants was when parental locus was slammed in my face.

I still think this BS was historically slipped in by the schools and accepted by parents who did not know or care about the impact.
 
SMTA said:
Yea, I know. My battle with the locker searches and search warrants was when parental locus was slammed in my face.

I still think this BS was historically slipped in by the schools and accepted by parents who did not know or care about the impact.
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not familiar with parental locus but how does it impact that the locker is school property not private property or am i misunderstanding.
 
Objective-J said:
not familiar with parental locus but how does it impact that the locker is school property not private property or am i misunderstanding.
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In loco parentis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Parental locus, or in loco parentis, is Latin for in the place of a parent.
It is a concept where the legal responsibility for a minor child transfers some powers to a individual or an organization (school).
The logic is tha this transfer of responsibility is necessary for the proper care of the child.

In other words, since a parent does not need a search warrant based upon probable cause to search their own minor child's room, the child's school is accorded the same powers.

I sure as Hell don't like the concept, but it is firmly established in common law, and our hands are tied.

The same defense would also cover the RFID tag issue discussed here.
Since the RFID concept is radically different, though, I hope that it can be shut down easily and quickly.
Parents do not use RFID at home, so hopefully in loco parentis cannot be used by schools as a defense.
 
jamesrage said:
I hope the student wins.**** like this could be used to used to breed compliance with government and corporate monitoring of what we do.

Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear a School-Issued RFID Tracker | Threat Level | Wired.com

A Texas high school student is being suspended for refusing to wear a student ID card implanted with a radio-frequency identification chip.
Northside Independent School District in San Antonio began issuing the RFID-chip-laden student-body cards when the semester began in the fall. The ID badge has a bar code associated with a student’s Social Security number, and the RFID chip monitors pupils’ movements on campus, from when they arrive until when they leave.
Radio-frequency identification devices are a daily part of the electronic age — found in passports, and library and payment cards. Eventually they’re expected to replace bar-code labels on consumer goods. Now schools across the nation are slowly adopting them as well.
The suspended student, sophomore Andrea Hernandez, was notified by the Northside Independent School District in San Antonio that she won’t be able to continue attending John Jay High School unless she wears the badge around her neck, which she has been refusing to do. The district said the girl, who objects on privacy and religious grounds, beginning Monday would have to attend another high school in the district that does not yet employ the RFID tags.
The Rutherford Institute said it would go to court and try to nullify the district’s decision. The institute said that the district’s stated purpose for the program — to enhance their coffers — is “fundamentally disturbing.”
“There is something fundamentally disturbing about this school district’s insistence on steamrolling students into complying with programs that have nothing whatsoever to do with academic priorities and everything to do with fattening school coffers,” said John Whitehead, the institute’s president.
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On the plus side, I see an excellent opportunity to skip class using this.
If they can track students with it, just leave it in your next class and leave the building.
 
Just get one of those RFID blocking cases.
 
Henrin said:
Always an interesting argument. You could make the argument that kids need to have shots and they need to get surgeries they might otherwise not want, but there are restrictions to such things even then. You would logically weigh that on their health and basic human maintenance like haircuts. What we are talking about is not different for children and there is no amount of special need that they otherwise couldn't do that would allow it. Your doesn't apply argument doesn't apply itself.



Guards and teachers. Funny how timeless solutions that work still work.


The existence of the law warrants itself then?
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Ahhh children do need shots before attending school. You should study up on the subject.

many schools do set dress length, hair codes, down to colors that can and can't be worn.

children do not have the same rights as adults. they can't vote, drive cars, try having sex with a 16 year old!

It isn't a 'liberty' issue- a vast majority of both right and left leaning parents see it as safety for their minor children.

In Walters, OK a few guards and teachers knowing their children by sight might work instead of chips- we graduate 30 some kids a year. That isn't the same as a super high school like Columbine, CO that graduates 300+ a year. Practicality is the name of the game and used to be the a hallmark of libertarians. I do realize some who call themselves libertarian would be better called anarchists.

To the poster who longs for old school liberals and the ease with which 'modern' liberals embrace 'big government'... Government has changed from the 60's. A super 'conservative' Governor Rick Perry made a cervical cancer vaccination MANDATORY for virgin girls attending Texas schools.

It is counterproductive to simply pigeonhole folks as liberal or conservative and expect them to toe the party line.
 
jamesrage said:
I hope the student wins.**** like this could be used to used to breed compliance with government and corporate monitoring of what we do.

Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear a School-Issued RFID Tracker | Threat Level | Wired.com

A Texas high school student is being suspended for refusing to wear a student ID card implanted with a radio-frequency identification chip.
Northside Independent School District in San Antonio began issuing the RFID-chip-laden student-body cards when the semester began in the fall. The ID badge has a bar code associated with a student’s Social Security number, and the RFID chip monitors pupils’ movements on campus, from when they arrive until when they leave.
Radio-frequency identification devices are a daily part of the electronic age — found in passports, and library and payment cards. Eventually they’re expected to replace bar-code labels on consumer goods. Now schools across the nation are slowly adopting them as well.
The suspended student, sophomore Andrea Hernandez, was notified by the Northside Independent School District in San Antonio that she won’t be able to continue attending John Jay High School unless she wears the badge around her neck, which she has been refusing to do. The district said the girl, who objects on privacy and religious grounds, beginning Monday would have to attend another high school in the district that does not yet employ the RFID tags.
The Rutherford Institute said it would go to court and try to nullify the district’s decision. The institute said that the district’s stated purpose for the program — to enhance their coffers — is “fundamentally disturbing.”
“There is something fundamentally disturbing about this school district’s insistence on steamrolling students into complying with programs that have nothing whatsoever to do with academic priorities and everything to do with fattening school coffers,” said John Whitehead, the institute’s president.
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Jesus christ... I love Texas, but the people who run the schools are some of the most obnoxious POS's out there.

In high school I was suspended for not standing for the Texas pledge. (which plays daily) My belief was that state allegiance should be voluntary and not compulsory, especially for students who aren't even from Texas.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Jesus christ... I love Texas, but the people who run the schools are some of the most obnoxious POS's out there.

In high school I was suspended for not standing for the Texas pledge. (which plays daily) My belief was that state allegiance should be voluntary and not compulsory, especially for students who aren't even from Texas.
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Standing for the Texas Pledge, whatever that is, and using modern technology to keep track of the whereabouts of minors who are your responsibility are two very different things. No minor is going to be lost or injured by refusing to say the pledge. Keeping track of dependent minors is the first responsibility of the school.

Laws that attempt to protect adults from themselves are a danger to civil liberties. Laws that protect minors from themselves are quite necessary, which is why the in loco parentis laws apply to the school, and so the school is not just allowed, but required to keep close tabs on minors in their care. Using modern technology to do so is no more invasive than having teachers roam the halls at break to keep an eye on kids.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Standing for the Texas Pledge, whatever that is, and using modern technology to keep track of the whereabouts of minors who are your responsibility are two very different things. No minor is going to be lost or injured by refusing to say the pledge. Keeping track of dependent minors is the first responsibility of the school.

Laws that attempt to protect adults from themselves are a danger to civil liberties. Laws that protect minors from themselves are quite necessary, which is why the in loco parentis laws apply to the school, and so the school is not just allowed, but required to keep close tabs on minors in their care. Using modern technology to do so is no more invasive than having teachers roam the halls at break to keep an eye on kids.
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Is there a reason you directed this at me, or are you addressing the crowd?
 
I see no reason why this would be a violation of her "rights" on any level. Where I work I am required to carry a photo ID visibly on me at all times. I'm sure the next ones they issue will likely have RFID technology in them. This ID is required to be visible at all times. To get from the street to my desk I must use this badge THREE times to access the parking lot, the building, and then the area where my desk is. If I go to the cafeteria for food I have to use it to get back into my work area.

I see nothing wrong with this sort of security precaution.
 
jamesrage said:
I hope the student wins.**** like this could be used to used to breed compliance with government and corporate monitoring of what we do.

Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear a School-Issued RFID Tracker | Threat Level | Wired.com

A Texas high school student is being suspended for refusing to wear a student ID card implanted with a radio-frequency identification chip.
Northside Independent School District in San Antonio began issuing the RFID-chip-laden student-body cards when the semester began in the fall. The ID badge has a bar code associated with a student’s Social Security number, and the RFID chip monitors pupils’ movements on campus, from when they arrive until when they leave.
Radio-frequency identification devices are a daily part of the electronic age — found in passports, and library and payment cards. Eventually they’re expected to replace bar-code labels on consumer goods. Now schools across the nation are slowly adopting them as well.
The suspended student, sophomore Andrea Hernandez, was notified by the Northside Independent School District in San Antonio that she won’t be able to continue attending John Jay High School unless she wears the badge around her neck, which she has been refusing to do. The district said the girl, who objects on privacy and religious grounds, beginning Monday would have to attend another high school in the district that does not yet employ the RFID tags.
The Rutherford Institute said it would go to court and try to nullify the district’s decision. The institute said that the district’s stated purpose for the program — to enhance their coffers — is “fundamentally disturbing.”
“There is something fundamentally disturbing about this school district’s insistence on steamrolling students into complying with programs that have nothing whatsoever to do with academic priorities and everything to do with fattening school coffers,” said John Whitehead, the institute’s president.
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Crazies at war... too funny.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Jesus christ... I love Texas, but the people who run the schools are some of the most obnoxious POS's out there.

In high school I was suspended for not standing for the Texas pledge. (which plays daily) My belief was that state allegiance should be voluntary and not compulsory, especially for students who aren't even from Texas.
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Not to mention such a pledge is one of the pillars of fascism.
 
notquiteright said:
Ahhh children do need shots before attending school. You should study up on the subject.
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Yes, that is what the state says. I hardly see how what I said affects that.

many schools do set dress length, hair codes, down to colors that can and can't be worn.
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Again, I don't see how what I said affects that. Considering that many adults at their work place must do the same thing its a bit odd you say adults in this situation have more rights.

children do not have the same rights as adults. they can't vote, drive cars, try having sex with a 16 year old!
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The constitution never explicitly ensures the right to vote, as it does the right to speech. Instead it details ways that people can't be denied the right to vote.

Restricting sex with minors is for their protection, not because they lack rights to have sex. In fact, they do not.

Driving is considered a privilege for anyone in the country. It isn't, but that is how the state views it.

It isn't a 'liberty' issue- a vast majority of both right and left leaning parents see it as safety for their minor children.
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You do realize you just put liberty and safety in the same sentence, right?

In Walters, OK a few guards and teachers knowing their children by sight might work instead of chips- we graduate 30 some kids a year. That isn't the same as a super high school like Columbine, CO that graduates 300+ a year. Practicality is the name of the game and used to be the a hallmark of libertarians. I do realize some who call themselves libertarian would be better called anarchists.
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I have no idea what your point is in saying that.

To the poster who longs for old school liberals and the ease with which 'modern' liberals embrace 'big government'... Government has changed from the 60's. A super 'conservative' Governor Rick Perry made a cervical cancer vaccination MANDATORY for virgin girls attending Texas schools.
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Which stands no longer and was stopped by the same person. You should keep up on your news.
 
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I had to carry an RFID chip card on me at all times in the Army, and it wasn't a big deal. People are just paranoid. If it worries her so much, all she has to do is disable the chip. Put a towel over it and give it a good whack with a hammer. If done right, it destroys the internal components of the chip without visible damage.
 
Surtr said:
I had to carry an RFID chip card on me at all times in the Army, and it wasn't a big deal. People are just paranoid. If it worries her so much, all she has to do is disable the chip. Put a towel over it and give it a good whack with a hammer. If done right, it destroys the internal components of the chip without visible damage.
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Or people just don't like being tracked by other people.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Jesus christ... I love Texas, but the people who run the schools are some of the most obnoxious POS's out there.

In high school I was suspended for not standing for the Texas pledge. (which plays daily) My belief was that state allegiance should be voluntary and not compulsory, especially for students who aren't even from Texas.
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When the hell did we get our own pledge? I never heard it before.
 
Surtr said:
Which is generally considered to be paranoia.
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I guess you can consider desiring privacy as paranoia, but it's not.
 
Surtr said:
When the hell did we get our own pledge? I never heard it before.
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No idea, but there was certainly one in the early 2000's when I was in high school. And apparently there's an actual law and everything: Stand or be suspended.

My jaw hit the floor when they actually suspended me. *shrugs* Wasn't the first time I'd been suspended, but definitely for the dumbest reason.
 
Henrin said:
I guess you can consider desiring privacy as paranoia, but it's not.
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There's a world of difference between privacy, and some little chip that tells the school campus if you're where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there. They used to have this thing back in my day called "role call" that did the same thing.
 
Surtr said:
There's a world of difference between privacy, and some little chip that tells the school campus if you're where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there. They used to have this thing back in my day called "role call" that did the same thing.
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Except this little card tells others where you are when you don't arrive. If I was there than obviously the card wouldn't come into play.
 
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