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Thread: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

  1. #11
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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Since there is littlle time left and we are not likely to reach a hasty decision why not postpone it for another 6 months or so while putting some kind of stop gap measure in place. That way a reasonable decision can be made.

    Any plan is not as good as a good plan
    Because they said that 6 months ago, and a year before that. The only thing that works, as it did in the 90s, is refusing to go any further.

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Because they said that 6 months ago, and a year before that. The only thing that works, as it did in the 90s, is refusing to go any further.
    Ok point taken, but do you really expect something even remotely decent in the next 5 weeks?
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Ok point taken, but do you really expect something even remotely decent in the next 5 weeks?
    Of course not, but Im ok with going over the cliff. The country needs to be knocked down so it can learn to get back up.

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    We can easily eliminate the deficit by getting rid of unneeded spending, and minor reforms to social spending. The problem with a slow approach is damage to credit and mounting interest costs. We got into the mess pretty quick, quadrupling the deficit in two years. We can get out of it pretty quick.
    The impact of such parametric reforms as raising the age of eligibility on Social Security and Medicare, introducing a degree of means-testing for Medicare, additional benefit restructuring, and raising the payroll taxes used to fund those programs to address the remaining funding gap would substantially reduce the nation's long-term structural imbalances. Over time, revenue growth and discretionary spending reductions coupled with a substantial reduction of the nation's long-term imbalances would allow it to achieve budget surpluses. That will take time. The first challenge is to stabilize. The next is to reduce debt as a share of GDP. The third is to reduce debt in absolute terms to a level consistent with pre-financial crisis/pre-recession norms.

    I don't believe there's any reasonable way the nation can immediately eliminate its entire annual budget deficits at once. Full-fledged austerity would lead to a recession. In turn, the recession would lead to a dampening of tax revenue. Additional savings would need to be found for the lost revenue and those savings would have their own adverse macroeconomic impact. The nation would experience a near self-reinforcing cycle of austerity-economic pain-need for additional austerity. The outcome would be a much deeper and longer recession than would have been necessary. Greece is currently caught in that kind of long-duration austerity trap. Such an approach would be an inferior means of achieving the same kind of savings that could be realized over time by a credible fiscal consolidation strategy that includes discretionary savings, parametric reforms, and some tax hikes over a reasonable transitional period.

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The impact of such parametric reforms as raising the age of eligibility on Social Security and Medicare, introducing a degree of means-testing for Medicare, additional benefit restructuring, and raising the payroll taxes used to fund those programs to address the remaining funding gap would substantially reduce the nation's long-term structural imbalances. Over time, revenue growth and discretionary spending reductions coupled with a substantial reduction of the nation's long-term imbalances would allow it to achieve budget surpluses. That will take time. The first challenge is to stabilize. The next is to reduce debt as a share of GDP. The third is to reduce debt in absolute terms to a level consistent with pre-financial crisis/pre-recession norms.

    I don't believe there's any reasonable way the nation can immediately eliminate its entire annual budget deficits at once. Full-fledged austerity would lead to a recession. In turn, the recession would lead to a dampening of tax revenue. Additional savings would need to be found for the lost revenue and those savings would have their own adverse macroeconomic impact. The nation would experience a near self-reinforcing cycle of austerity-economic pain-need for additional austerity. The outcome would be a much deeper and longer recession than would have been necessary. Greece is currently caught in that kind of long-duration austerity trap. Such an approach would be an inferior means of achieving the same kind of savings that could be realized over time by a credible fiscal consolidation strategy that includes discretionary savings, parametric reforms, and some tax hikes over a reasonable transitional period.
    What should happen is a similar tax that Canada has for goods and services, however remove the tax on food. Tax brackets will remain the same for income earned, maybe a little increase from the GOP negotiating side of things could be tolerated in exchange for some of the common sense approaches you list here, but we both know that even that is not enough. It would slow the crash, and provide time to have another election and see if the country realizes it made a huge mistake, or, in the mid-terms it could vote for exactly much of the same, and in this vien, I have zero hope for sanity. Our collective problem as a nation is that we don't send capable business common sense regular Joe's to Washington, we send lawyers mostly, and have for years, and this has to stop.

    If the voters keep things the same in the mid's then there is NO hope at all. If this country was an individual, it wouldn't be allowed to borrow a nickle from anyone, period, and THAT's what people need to understand to comphrehend just how bad our situation really is.


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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The impact of such parametric reforms as raising the age of eligibility on Social Security and Medicare, introducing a degree of means-testing for Medicare, additional benefit restructuring, and raising the payroll taxes used to fund those programs to address the remaining funding gap would substantially reduce the nation's long-term structural imbalances. Over time, revenue growth and discretionary spending reductions coupled with a substantial reduction of the nation's long-term imbalances would allow it to achieve budget surpluses. That will take time. The first challenge is to stabilize. The next is to reduce debt as a share of GDP. The third is to reduce debt in absolute terms to a level consistent with pre-financial crisis/pre-recession norms.

    I don't believe there's any reasonable way the nation can immediately eliminate its entire annual budget deficits at once. Full-fledged austerity would lead to a recession. In turn, the recession would lead to a dampening of tax revenue. Additional savings would need to be found for the lost revenue and those savings would have their own adverse macroeconomic impact. The nation would experience a near self-reinforcing cycle of austerity-economic pain-need for additional austerity. The outcome would be a much deeper and longer recession than would have been necessary. Greece is currently caught in that kind of long-duration austerity trap. Such an approach would be an inferior means of achieving the same kind of savings that could be realized over time by a credible fiscal consolidation strategy that includes discretionary savings, parametric reforms, and some tax hikes over a reasonable transitional period.
    K, well Ill see you in 10 years when we're still making the same arguments and nothing has changed.

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    K, well Ill see you in 10 years when we're still making the same arguments and nothing has changed.
    I don't think enough will be done, but I'm not advocating doing too little. I believe the nation needs to adopt a credible fiscal consolidation strategy. Bowles-Simpson would have made a good down payment on that approach.

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't think enough will be done, but I'm not advocating doing too little. I believe the nation needs to adopt a credible fiscal consolidation strategy. Bowles-Simpson would have made a good down payment on that approach.
    But it didnt, just like every other solution that will be ignored. Other than one fluke in the 90s, nothing has changed in 100 years, only gotten worse.

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    Re: Sens. Alexander, Bennet give leaders emergency plan to avoid 'fiscal cliff

    No more extensions. These guys have had all year to deal with this. There was no magical barrier preventing them from working on this before the election. The incumbency rate was, what, like 90%? It's not even really a lame-duck congress. Do your freaking jobs, you freaking children.

    If I had a year to come up with an agreement on something, and failed to do so, you know what my boss would do?

    ****can me.
    Last edited by Deuce; 11-27-12 at 07:22 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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