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Thread: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Only disobedient in the RCC view, which is their very slanted view of the world.

    There needs to be more Catholics who stand up to the RCC's 'good old boys' method of governance.
    Just FYI, whether you like the RC view or not, it is what it is. The Church is implacable re the ordination of women, which is what this is about, and again, whether you approve or not. Those who are ordained as priests are required to follow the rules, and this now defrocked priest publicly and obstinately preached against those rules.

    As I've said, perhaps he will find a denomination that better suits his personal beliefs. In the meantime, he knew what he was doing/saying and what the consequences are, and he has now faced them.

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    He knew the earth wasn't flat.
    Ummm...so did the church. Had nothing to do with flat earth. Galileo was known for his theories on motion and the fact that the earth was not the center of our solar system.
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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Just FYI, whether you like the RC view or not, it is what it is. The Church is implacable re the ordination of women, which is what this is about, and again, whether you approve or not. Those who are ordained as priests are required to follow the rules, and this now defrocked priest publicly and obstinately preached against those rules.

    As I've said, perhaps he will find a denomination that better suits his personal beliefs. In the meantime, he knew what he was doing/saying and what the consequences are, and he has now faced them.
    The rules against women being priests need to change.
    Sr. Elizabeth Johnson, Phd., Fordham University Theologist speaks perfectly on the subject:

    let it be stated as plainly as possible that Jesus never ordained twelve men, thus setting up an all-male priesthood. Such an interpretation is an anachronism projected backward onto the Gospels in the light of later development. In truth, biblical scholarship demonstrates that Jesus never ordained anyone; that a distinction must be made between the Twelve (who had no long-term successors), the apostles, and the disciples; and that women were among the most active and faithful of apostles and disciples. Furthermore, even if Jesus did ordain twelve men, this is no warrant for the church not to ordain women. The Spirit guides the church to do many things that Jesus did not, according to the needs of the gospel in the course of history.

    Regarding the second, history is replete with examples of unbroken tradition -breaking due to the moral sensibilities of believers, the insights of critical thinkers, and careful searching on the part of the teaching office, all converging in the context of cultural change. At one time it was official church teaching that it was unlawful for married couples to take pleasure in the marital act; that killing infidels was a way to salvation; that taking interest on a loan was forbidden; that slavery was permissible; that discrimination against Jewish people was legitimate; that biblical scholars could not use historical critical methods on Scripture texts.

    Regarding the third, let it be plainly stated that women are icons of Christ, imago Christi, in every essential way. There is a natural resemblance between women and Jesus Christ in terms of a common humanity and participation in divine grace. To teach otherwise is a pernicious error that vitiates the power of baptism. The naive physicalism that reduces resembling Christ to being male is so deviant from Scripture and so theologically distorted as to be dangerous to the faith itself.
    Sr. Elizabeth A. Johnson, Phd.

    Elizabeth A. Johnson's Assessment of ‘Ordinatio Sacerdotalis’
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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Johnson is a radical feminist heretic who's the author of She Who Is. From what I've read, the Church has been very patient and tolerant with her, but perhaps she is another who needs to find a denomination more in line with her beliefs. If she switched to Episcopalian, she could even be an American bishop.

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Only disobedient in the RCC view, which is their very slanted view of the world.

    There needs to be more Catholics who stand up to the RCC's 'good old boys' method of governance.
    Their organization, their rules.

    I'm not a Catholic myself, but I fully recognize the right of the Catholic church, as with any other religious organization, to establish for itself, by methods of its own choosing, what its doctrines, practices, and policies will be, and to require its members and especially its official representatives to comply therewith.

    Whether you agree with any particular doctrines or practices, or whether you think they are wrong and reflect a “very slanted view of the world”, and their method of establishing these doctrines and practices as a “‘good old boys’ method of governance” is irrelevant. You have no standing to dictate to the Catholic church anything about its doctrines, practices, or method of governance.

    Mr. Bourgeois is certainly free to believe what he will, and to appropriately express his beliefs. But if he cannot agree with and accept the doctrines and practices of the Catholic church, then it makes no sense for him to continue to be a member thereof, and it certainly makes no sense for him to be acting as an official representative thereof. The Catholic church was entirely within his rights to sever its ties to him, and if he truly had any integrity, then he would have done so himself well before it came to this.
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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    As I've said, perhaps he will find a denomination that better suits his personal beliefs.
    AKA picking and choosing the hate/sexism that you agree with

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    So, here is the crux of the matter. The Roman Catholic church is a top down faith, I should know as I am one, change does not happen quickly and must be convened through the council and the pope through church doctrine. Now, people may not like that but it is the rule, the Roman Catholic church has changed doctrine in the past, such as Pope John Paul II bridging the gap between Judaism, Islam, and other religions not affiliated with Christianity. The church convenes to examine where the faith is, if a case can be made for the end of celibacy rules for priests/nuns or to ordain female priests the council will hear the arguments and make a decision, but that is protocol.

    The problem with arguing against the church in certain fashions is a violation of protocol. One doesn't win favor with cardinals, bishops, and the pope by calling out the church in a harsh manner, rather, like many other scholars our theologians appreciate calm and rational discourse. It's just the reality of my faith.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    AKA picking and choosing the hate/sexism that you agree with
    No, sir. I'm neither a "hater" nor a sexist. I'm not even a name-caller, and it's a shame you can't say the same and that rather than reason, you're able only to offer unimaginative personal attack.

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Is there a single logical, science based based reason for gender inequalities within the church system?

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    Re: The Sad End of the Priestly Ministry of Mr. Roy Bourgeois

    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    Is there a single logical, science based based reason for gender inequalities within the church system?
    Scripture and symbolism. The disciples were all male.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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