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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Similar, the dolts vandalizeing the Athiest signs make those against the athiests actions look dumb.

    That said...I agree completely with you general idea here. How about, if you dislike the notion of a nativity up as a christmas display and you have your own section, that you use your section to celebrate the secular traditions of the holiday instead? What the **** does "anti-god" posters have to do, AT ALL, with celebrating Christmas...be it the traditional holiday or the secular one?
    This is completely anecdotal, but in my hometown the city allowed other faiths to put up holiday displays alongside the christian nativity. Within the first week of the Wiccan pentagram being put up, local christian vandals ripped it down with a chain and pickup truck in the middle of the night. Then they complained that other religions wanted a war on Christmas. To me it seems very opposite, that the war is really a fight for exclusivity of christian religious displays on public property. If a municipality is going to selectively allow only certain religions to display their religious symbols on public property, then they shouldn't allow any.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    It stops at public property, paid for in part by athiest tax dollars.
    I would argue it stops at good taste and this doesn't leave me with a good taste.
    Hail to the King baby!

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    I would argue it stops at good taste and this doesn't leave me with a good taste.
    Um...OK...so whenever someone, somewhere wants to put up some kind of a display...instead of consulting their city council (or similar), they should just call/email you?

    Forgive me if that seems to me to be a bit...arbitrary and cumbersome.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    This is completely anecdotal, but in my hometown the city allowed other faiths to put up holiday displays alongside the christian nativity. Within the first week of the Wiccan pentagram being put up, local christian vandals ripped it down with a chain and pickup truck in the middle of the night. Then they complained that other religions wanted a war on Christmas. To me it seems very opposite, that the war is really a fight for exclusivity of christian religious displays on public property. If a municipality is going to selectively allow only certain religions to display their religious symbols on public property, then they shouldn't allow any.
    I can agree with this. But the difference I see here is that the atheists weren't putting up a holiday display. Had it been a holiday display I wouldn't be arguing with the decision.
    Hail to the King baby!

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    I can agree with this. But the difference I see here is that the atheists weren't putting up a holiday display. Had it been a holiday display I wouldn't be arguing with the decision.
    don't you get that to them Christmas is NOT a holiday to be celebrated, so this season is like any other ... except that they get to use it to frame their own message
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    I can agree with this. But the difference I see here is that the atheists weren't putting up a holiday display. Had it been a holiday display I wouldn't be arguing with the decision.
    There's a deep disconnect going on here. Your posts repeatedly imply some sort of obligation to go along with a holiday message, or spread good cheer, or whatever.

    Where, exactly, does this completely arbitrary obligation come from?
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    I would argue it stops at good taste and this doesn't leave me with a good taste.
    It doesn't leave you with a good taste that public property shouldn't be used for christian proselytization to the exclusion of other faiths?

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    It stops at public property, paid for in part by athiest tax dollars.
    don't forget others with non-xian beliefs are also paying taxes for that public park. In other parts of the country where towns tried the balanced approach, some folks simply couldn't deal with it.

    Here are a couple more of those infamous Atheist signs from the park in Santa Monica

    a5_99.jpg

    charlie1a.jpg


    Yep - really hateful stuff
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Um...OK...so whenever someone, somewhere wants to put up some kind of a display...instead of consulting their city council (or similar), they should just call/email you?

    Forgive me if that seems to me to be a bit...arbitrary and cumbersome.

    The whole premise of this debate isn't a legal one. We can all agree that what happened was exactly what should have happen. The atheists and christians both are allowed displays. The debate I am presenting is that the atheists pick a bad time and place to try and promote their message. The whole celebration of the season is about peace. The atheists decided that this was a great time to deliver a message of intolerance. IMO, it weakens their message just as much as whomever vandalized their display had their message weaken by that action.
    Hail to the King baby!

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    I can agree with this. But the difference I see here is that the atheists weren't putting up a holiday display. Had it been a holiday display I wouldn't be arguing with the decision.
    Therein lies the problem with allowing religious displays. Athiests are sort of an enigma in that they don't have a common belief system. They are unified by not being religious. The only thing they have in common with all athiests is that they don't believe in god. But what about the random satanist, or muslim, or wiccan? When these groups put up religious displays, they are normally vandalized and torn down. The only reason the christian nativity doesn't normally suffer the same fate is because christians are the majority religion. If the christian faith ever becomes the minority, I bet we'll see a start reversal of their stances on religious displays on public property.

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