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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    A few wealthy people who give money and are non-religious doesn't mean that non-religious people tend to be more giving. The facts show otherwise (which is what this off-topic discussion is about when you made the claim that "very few fail in those claims as badly as Christians." in reference to Christians expressing peace goodwill and charity). They don't "fail in those claims" when they are the ones shown to be more giving (again when it comes to donations to charities).
    You are aware that includes religious tithing given to their churches, used for operating expenses, right? When you get a bunch of people who are convinced that their imaginary friend in the sky wants 10% of their income (or whatever percentage), of course you're going to get a lot of people giving! It's a guilt trip!
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    I doubt that Christ's mass would still be celebrated today without Jesus since he is the Christ that it is based off of.

    There were/are lot's of holidays centered around the winter solstice so I agree that we would probably be celebrating something if Christmas did not exist, it would have likely carried over from one culture to another (usually does).

    I'm not sure what any of this has to do with atheists trying to derail a 60 year old christian tradition of celebrating Christmas in a park though.
    On the contrary, "Christ" is the title of the messiah, so had the people believed that someone other than Jesus were the Messiah and a religion built around that person, they would still be called "Christians" and the holiday would still likely be "Christmas" that celebrated his/her birth. Plus, since it is pretty well established that Jesus most likely was not actually born on Dec. 25th, or even December at all, but rather as others have mentioned, it was chosen to include more people and more easily convert people, it is not unthinkable to believe that we would still have Christmas during the same season as the winter solstice and Saturnalia, because the entire point was to try to combine those holidays to join more people.

    And traditions are not sacred to me. Other people have their traditions too. I saw the pics of the nativity scene that was put it. It looked pretty flashy and cheap. It probably would benefit greatly by being put on private property, rather than the public park because people tend to care more when it is on their property or when a display might look bad. I am a firm believer in parks should be for playing and walking and picnics, not signs and displays that stay up for a month or more just for people to gawk at. Put those things on your own property.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then go ahead and celebrate in your way and let others celebrate in theirs. I see "pushy" atheists rather than pushy Christians in this case. A tradition of 50 years is being lost because some poor atheists are offended. It's time they got a life.

    In the city where I'm living at the moment there are Hindu festivals and Muslim festivals, as well as several others. Would these atheists try to break them up as well? I doubt they would have the balls. Nor would civilized people break up a Gay Pride parade or any number of rallies we allow in order that everyone get along.

    This pettiness, the looking to be "offended" is just petty people trying to gain some fleeting importance and media attention they wouldn't otherwise have. They are a blister on society's backside and should be ridiculed at every opportunity. And they supply many opportunities.
    I'm not an atheist. I'm just not Christian.

    And how I celebrate has nothing to do with this thread. Others were trying to celebrate or express themselves their way. Their displays were vandalized. The town considered that a liability, probably due to many reasons. They decided not to allow any more displays that would be left unattended so they could possibly be vandalized again or that could cause legal issues. That is their right to do it and it is a smart move. Now everyone can use private property to put up displays of whatever kind.
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    A few wealthy people who give money and are non-religious doesn't mean that non-religious people tend to be more giving. The facts show otherwise (which is what this off-topic discussion is about when you made the claim that "very few fail in those claims as badly as Christians." in reference to Christians expressing peace goodwill and charity). They don't "fail in those claims" when they are the ones shown to be more giving (again when it comes to donations to charities).

    You seem to have a bone to pick with religious people, that's fine it's your business as to why you don't like them. It doesn't however change the facts in regards to this matter in that religious people and red states are more giving when it comes to non-profit charitable organizations.

    Source:
    I think this is bull. I believe they are lumping together basically anyone who claims a religion at all, even if they really don't practice their religion or believe some things that are different.

    I'm not atheist, but I also do not claim an actual religion. I have my own beliefs. I donated thousands every year to charity while I was single in the Navy. And I gave more money to my family. More than many of my peers, even the religious ones, by far. Even more than those making more than me. I consider charity to be a very good thing to do.

    But, I am also not trying to buy my way into any positive afterlife. I honestly believe there are some who do. In fact, I can't think of any other reason for tithing. It isn't always voluntary, in particular for Mormons, who you mentioned earlier.

    https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-st...rings?lang=eng

    Note this:

    Choosing to live the law of tithing will be a great blessing throughout your life. A tithe is one-tenth of your income. In order to enter the temple, you must be a full-tithe payer.
    In order to be a practicing Mormon, they must tithe. It isn't charity. It is like paying to be in a club, only it's a religion.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 11-26-12 at 09:50 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    BEING SUPER LATE to this thread and im going to scan through im not reading it all but im sure this question was asked.


    why is this the atheists fault?

    seems to be its the vandals fault who ever they were
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I don't see what the problem is with these ****ing atheists. I am an agnostic atheist and I could care less. I think that nativity scenes and Christmas is fun and doesn't need to have anything to do with religion. It is about expressing love and kindness to people and surely atheists are capable of this too. Zealous atheists are such assholes. Find something better to do.
    An agnostic atheist is like a Gay Republican. We all know they exist, however the two terms are contradictory. Atheism is the position that there is no such thing as supernatural activity a-la gods, fairies, elves etc. Theism is the position that those things do exist. Agnostics claim the position of 'I don't know'. That said, you can't say you don't know, and then somehow support the ONE atheistic claim that those things don't exist. You're simply an agnostic, a theist or an atheist.
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I think this is bull. I believe they are lumping together basically anyone who claims a religion at all, even if they really don't practice their religion or believe some things that are different.

    I'm not atheist, but I also do not claim an actual religion. I have my own beliefs. I donated thousands every year to charity while I was single in the Navy. And I gave more money to my family. More than many of my peers, even the religious ones, by far. Even more than those making more than me. I consider charity to be a very good thing to do.

    But, I am also not trying to buy my way into any positive afterlife. I honestly believe there are some who do. In fact, I can't think of any other reason for tithing. It isn't always voluntary, in particular for Mormons, who you mentioned earlier.

    https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-st...rings?lang=eng

    Note this:



    In order to be a practicing Mormon, they must tithe. It isn't charity. It is like paying to be in a club, only it a religion.
    No one is saying that non-religious people aren't caring or giving what I am saying is that studies show time and time again that in the US religious people tend to contribute more to non-profit charitable organizations than secular folk. I posted links, feel free to look them over.

    As for your comments on the Mormons, the motives for why people give are going to change depending on the individual person, you can go ahead and assume that they give for selfish reasons all that you want but I would advise against it, that's a lot of people you don't know and are willing to make assumptions about.
    Last edited by Monserrat; 11-26-12 at 10:18 PM.
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    BEING SUPER LATE to this thread and im going to scan through im not reading it all but im sure this question was asked.


    why is this the atheists fault?

    seems to be its the vandals fault who ever they were
    I and a lot of others were saying that Vix (the atheist who organized others to try to invade a religious tradition) was being a dick. It wasn't atheists fault and the religious people trying to sue are being ridiculous since the only legal action that could be taken is by those whose booths were vandalized.
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    You are aware that includes religious tithing given to their churches, used for operating expenses, right? When you get a bunch of people who are convinced that their imaginary friend in the sky wants 10% of their income (or whatever percentage), of course you're going to get a lot of people giving! It's a guilt trip!
    Not all Christian Churches require it and everyone has their own reasons for why they give. Suffice it to say it does not take away from the fact that religious people give more to charities than secular people even though secular people were found to make more money (it's all in the last source I cited).
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    I and a lot of others were saying that Vix (the atheist who organized others to try to invade a religious tradition) was being a dick. It wasn't atheists fault and the religious people trying to sue are being ridiculous since the only legal action that could be taken is by those whose booths were vandalized.
    not sure about about him being a dick simply based off of some of the signs i saw (happy holidays ) but yes, theres definitely a potential for the "jerk factor" to be implied.

    and I also agree the people trying to sue are being ridiculous and its a losing battle.
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