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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Originally Posted by rocket88 But why should the government involve itself in saying "It's OK to celebrate this religious holiday, but not others?" The First Amendment does not require the government to build your church or give you a soapbox from which you can express your views.

    I'm sure that the church has a front lawn they can display their nativity scene on, or at least one of the congregants does. Same is true of the atheists. Why does it have to be a public park?
    Why does it matter if it is in a public park or not? Christian Bible Camps and other such things take place at public beaches many times... should they be banned as well?
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's completely false. The largest charities out there are completely secular. The Red Cross, for instance, the largest charity there is, has nothing to do with religion. The most prolific charitable givers are also atheists. Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet give billions to help others and don't believe in gods. Then you take many of the most wealthy religious public figures and they give essentially nothing.

    It's a myth perpetuated by the religious that you have to be religious to be caring. It's a flat-out lie.
    It's not completely false, it's not even slightly false. I said "some of the largest charity organizations in the world are christian non-prof orgs."

    World Vision, Food for the poor, Volunteers of America...they're all Christian based and all reached either close to or above 1 billion dollars in expenses in 2011. They are three of the top non-profit organizations in terms of size and money spent.

    As far as who is the most giving in terms of contributing to charity it typically ends up being red states with Utah as a top giver which is actually based on the fact that they're Mormon. The top 10 according to philanthropy.com are actually mostly red states with Utah getting the top spot.

    1. Utah

    The Mormon tradition of tithing is a primary reason residents of this state well outpace those in every other place in America. The typical household claimed charitable contributions totaling 10.6 percent of discretionary income. Thatís nearly 3.5 percentage points ahead of the number for its nearest rival. Utah is also the hands-down winner when it comes to the rate of volunteering. Forty-five percent of its residents volunteered in 2008. (Nebraska, at 40 percent, ranked No. 2.) The state is home to Salt Lake City, which tops the rankings of the 50 biggest metropolitan areas in terms of generosity. Sharing the Wealth: How the States Stack Up in Giving - How America Gives - The Chronicle of Philanthropy- Connecting the nonprofit world with news, jobs, and ideas
    You can look at how they got their results here: How The Chronicle Compiled Its Look at Giving Across America - How America Gives - The Chronicle of Philanthropy- Connecting the nonprofit world with news, jobs, and ideas
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Ah, playing the Muslim card. I also wouldn't walk into an NFL locker room and spout off racist rants...there's a difference between cowardly and stupid.The "target" of vandalism was the atheist displays. Not the Nativity scenes. Whoever the child was that vandalized those ruined it for everyone. Not the atheists who put up the signs.
    The children are the atheists who started complaining with the snti-God comments in the first place...
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Why does it matter if it is in a public park or not? Christian Bible Camps and other such things take place at public beaches many times... should they be banned as well?

    Not necessarily, but if people show up to throw eggs at them, then they probably shouldn't.


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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    It's not completely false, it's not even slightly false. I said "some of the largest charity organizations in the world are christian non-prof orgs."

    World Vision, Food for the poor, Volunteers of America...they're all Christian based and all reached either close to or above 1 billion dollars in expenses in 2011. They are three of the top non-profit organizations in terms of size and money spent.
    And we can throw in the ACLU, Amnesty International, Goodwill Industries, UNICEF and Rotary International, all purely secular charities that do massive amounts of good. These are all groups that are supported by individuals, not by churches. In fact, charities which have traditionally identified as religious are realizing that labeling themselves as such is detrimental to their donations, that's a major reason Christian Children's Fund changed it's name to ChildFund in 2009. It's not really a Christian group, it's a charity which has little to do with religion.

    As far as who is the most giving in terms of contributing to charity it typically ends up being red states with Utah as a top giver which is actually based on the fact that they're Mormon. The top 10 according to philanthropy.com are actually mostly red states with Utah getting the top spot.
    I listed individuals, not groups. Come up with a single wealthy Mormon that gives more than Bill Gates ($10 billion in 2010) and I'll concede you have something.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Originally Posted by Cephus
    That's completely false. The largest charities out there are completely secular.
    Monserrat left off the Salvation Army and Habitat For Humanity... two HUGE charities. There are TONS of Christian Charities alone.
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Hey, they're running scared, non-belief is the fastest growing segment of the population, people are fleeing the churches, they're losing power, what else are they going to do now that their empty and pathetic beliefs have failed them?
    Thanks for perfectly illustrating my original point in regards to attitude give us atheists a bad name. Tolerance man, you heard of it? Your inability to get past your personal bias does nothing but hurt your argument.
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And we can throw in the ACLU, Amnesty International, Goodwill Industries, UNICEF and Rotary International, all purely secular charities that do massive amounts of good. These are all groups that are supported by individuals, not by churches. In fact, charities which have traditionally identified as religious are realizing that labeling themselves as such is detrimental to their donations, that's a major reason Christian Children's Fund changed it's name to ChildFund in 2009. It's not really a Christian group, it's a charity which has little to do with religion.



    I listed individuals, not groups. Come up with a single wealthy Mormon that gives more than Bill Gates ($10 billion in 2010) and I'll concede you have something.
    Are you really asking for a mormon who has given more than Bill Gates, the second most wealthy man in the entire world?
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And we can throw in the ACLU, Amnesty International, Goodwill Industries, UNICEF and Rotary International, all purely secular charities that do massive amounts of good. These are all groups that are supported by individuals, not by churches. In fact, charities which have traditionally identified as religious are realizing that labeling themselves as such is detrimental to their donations, that's a major reason Christian Children's Fund changed it's name to ChildFund in 2009. It's not really a Christian group, it's a charity which has little to do with religion.
    Over 1/3 of donations in 2010 were given by religions or the religious. Also, do you yo uactually think that all other donations to non-religious institutions are given by non-religious people? That is, of course, ridiculous. I know many family members that are religious but give to non-religious organizations...


    I listed individuals, not groups. Come up with a single wealthy Mormon that gives more than Bill Gates ($10 billion in 2010) and I'll concede you have something.
    Yeah... choose the wealthiest guy in the world... way to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And we can throw in the ACLU, Amnesty International, Goodwill Industries, UNICEF and Rotary International, all purely secular charities that do massive amounts of good. These are all groups that are supported by individuals, not by churches. In fact, charities which have traditionally identified as religious are realizing that labeling themselves as such is detrimental to their donations, that's a major reason Christian Children's Fund changed it's name to ChildFund in 2009. It's not really a Christian group, it's a charity which has little to do with religion.



    I listed individuals, not groups. Come up with a single wealthy Mormon that gives more than Bill Gates ($10 billion in 2010) and I'll concede you have something.
    Like Bodhisattva said I left off a lot of christian charities but it doesn't change the fact that at least 3 of the top 10 largest in 2011 were Christian non-prof-orgs (a list that the orgs you mentioned above didn't happen to make). Point being, my statement holds true that christian organizations are among the heavy hitters in the world when it comes to charitable organizations.

    It wouldn't be accurate to pick out certain individuals who have a **** ton of money when we are talking about the type of people who give and who as a group gives more to charities (which studies indicate that it ends up being red states and more religious folk).
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