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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

  1. #471
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So the truth is an insult? LMAO! OK. Well you win, I am done with this. I think Winston summed it up quite nicely.
    It is hers and possibly your own version of the truth, but that doesn't make it fact. I don't believe Jesus was born on Christmas or any of the story of the nativity, yet I still celebrate Christmas. It has nothing to do with Jesus to me and to many others. So yes, it is "insulting" in a way for someone to try to claim that Jesus is the only reason for the season (I am strong enough to not care though, but will point it out when necessary to make my point).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is hers and possibly your own version of the truth, but that doesn't make it fact. I don't believe Jesus was born on Christmas or any of the story of the nativity, yet I still celebrate Christmas. It has nothing to do with Jesus to me and to many others. So yes, it is "insulting" in a way for someone to try to claim that Jesus is the only reason for the season (I am strong enough to not care though, but will point it out when necessary to make my point).
    I said we know it was not on Christmas, I also mentioned it was started in ancient Rome. It does not matter what you believe as far as Christianity or not believes. In the US it is a historical fact, period. Has nothing to do with being insulting as it is an irrefutable fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I said we know it was not on Christmas, I also mentioned it was started in ancient Rome. It does not matter what you believe as far as Christianity or not believes. In the US it is a historical fact, period. Has nothing to do with being insulting as it is an irrefutable fact.
    For many, it is that reason. Not all. And things change when people become more educated about facts. It is not a fact that everyone, even when this country was founded, believed that Christmas or even the season was all about Jesus. Even then, there were some who celebrated the solstice or who were Jewish or who had other beliefs or who believed nothing at all.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    For many, it is that reason. Not all. And things change when people become more educated about facts. It is not a fact that everyone, even when this country was founded, believed that Christmas or even the season was all about Jesus. Even then, there were some who celebrated the solstice or who were Jewish or who had other beliefs or who believed nothing at all.
    I doubt most of the Native Indians cared about jesus. I know my Sioux friend still follows and believes in her Indian ways.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    For many, it is that reason. Not all. And things change when people become more educated about facts. It is not a fact that everyone, even when this country was founded, believed that Christmas or even the season was all about Jesus. Even then, there were some who celebrated the solstice or who were Jewish or who had other beliefs or who believed nothing at all.
    I agree, this however does not change the reality of the history behind it. I mean upwards of 90% of the US citizenry and still around 70% today was or is identified as Christian (not including native Americans obviously) it is part of our history. It is not a lie or exaggeration, it just is what it is. I admit she probably meant it to be some kind of all encompassing statement about the holidays and she would be wrong in that way. Historically however, it is nothing insulting at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I doubt most of the Native Indians cared about jesus. I know my Sioux friend still follows and believes in her Indian ways.
    This has nothing literally to do with native Americans at all. My native American relatives are Christian by the way as well as many others, so your point is bunk either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This has nothing literally to do with native Americans at all. My native American relatives are Christian by the way as well as many others, so your point is bunk either way.
    BS if it is bunk. Not every body believes like you. And 200 years ago not everybody believed.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I agree, this however does not change the reality of the history behind it. I mean upwards of 90% of the US citizenry and still around 70% today was or is identified as Christian (not including native Americans obviously) it is part of our history. It is not a lie or exaggeration, it just is what it is. I admit she probably meant it to be some kind of all encompassing statement about the holidays and she would be wrong in that way. Historically however, it is nothing insulting at all.
    Do you not see your double standard? You believe people shouldn't be "insulted" by a sign that implies the only reason for the holiday season is Jesus, even those who believe in religions that existed and celebrated the season before Christianity existed, yet it is ok to be insulted by the atheist signs. I think it is thin-skinned to be insulted by either, but I accept that different people would be insulted by both. Both sides were being petty, I won't deny that, but it is still not the major issue of this. The issue is that the Christians who are suing for their nativity scene appear to be blaming the atheists for them not getting to put up their nativity scene in the public park but it is much more complicated than that. No matter what messages were on those other displays (excluding things that actually would be reasonably vulgar or offensive) they won those spots fair and square and no one's rights were being trampled by banning all unattended displays. And it was the fault of the vandals and the complexity of the system itself. The religious who want the nativity scene are more than free to find another space to put it in and likely it would be better off on private property anyways.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I think it is great the atheist want to share their message of Peace. Christians do not have exclusive rights to it and should practice some peace love and understanding themesleves.
    It was not Christians who interfered with an atheist tradition.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This has nothing literally to do with native Americans at all. My native American relatives are Christian by the way as well as many others, so your point is bunk either way.
    The native Americans were "converted" when the settlers got here. It was basically convert for food/clothing/necessities or struggle and die off. Many native Americans I know either still believe their old ways or have gone back to the old ways. They are starting to go back to their own beliefs. Even in Hawaii, there are a lot of young native Hawaiians who have rejected Christianity that their parents taught them and who have gone back to worshiping the old Hawaiian gods. I had a boss who was in this situation while I was there.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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