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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

  1. #231
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I agree regarding the vandalizing. Also a dickish move...as I've suggested.









    That said, not everyone whose "crying" that the city isn't giving them an oppertunity anymore are the ones that vandalized it. I agree though, those who are JUST blaming the athiest groups for causing the holiday decorations to no longer be allowed don't have much ground to stand on for their complaints.

    However, those just blaming "thiests" also don't have much ground.

    You had a place allowing for the public to put up HOLIDAY celebration displays on public property and had been doing so for many years.
    and that history does not convey to them any privilege that others of different beliefs should not also be able to enjoy
    You had a group rallying others of like mind to purposefully attempt to hinder and disrupt said celebration by gaining spots and placing up things that not only had nothing to do with a holiday celebration, but were meant to be outright hostile and/or antagonistic to the various religious AND NON RELIGIOUS celebrations occuring there.
    others of different belief systems wanted to exercise their right to free expression of their beliefs just as those who believe in a virgin birth expressed theirs
    there is no obligation when expressing one's beliefs to assure that others are not offended
    but it appears you - and others - want to provide for a super-priority for those of the Christian faith, which would not be extended to those of other beliefs
    a preference which cannot be tolerated in a society that celebrates equality
    Not shockingly, this dick moved inspired others to do escalating dickish things such as vandalizing them.
    you post that as if they are equivalents. only the vandals conducted themselves unlawfully. those of different beliefs exercised their right to express their beliefs
    While that doesn't excuse the vandals actions, it does play a part in it.
    you are offering excuses for the vandals
    there are none
    they chose to behave illegally
    were they likely offended by those exhibits by others having different beliefs? probably. but engaging in illegal/vandalizing behavior is not an appropriate response. those vandals did something wrong
    significantly, those atheists did NOT
    They turned the situation into an antagonistic one in the first place, and then the other side raised the stakes, and ultimately the whole thing got shut down because two sides of adults decided they wanted to act like ****ing children.
    no. the atheists did NOT turn the situation into an antagonistic one
    those vandals chose to do so
    the atheists did nothing more than exercise their legal rights
    they did NOTHING wrong
    you may disagree with their beliefs
    you may not like that they chose to express those beliefs in the same arena with those who had a history of expressing their Christian belief of a virgin birth with their nativity scene
    but toleration was in order
    no one refused to tolerate the Christian exhibit
    unfortunately, vandals chose to damage the display of those having different beliefs only because they were intolerant of those differing beliefs

    The Facts....

    The space and property and program had been used for years for the purpose of putting up holiday decorations for the public to enjoy on public land.
    Athiest groups attempted to gain multiple plots used for these decorations and proceeded to put up a number of decorations pertaining in no way to any winter holiday and often times specifically antagonistic to those celebrating those holidays
    Some of those displays were than vandalized by people
    The city government ordered the removal of all the displays

    It was a dick move to purposefully attempt to turn an area of holiday celebration into an antagonistic battle front of church vs state and faith vs reason
    It was a dick, and illegla, move to vandalize those decorations
    It was a sad but understandable action by the government to end the whole thing because two sides acted like bloody 3 year olds and the city government had to act like the parent taking the toy away from the kids.


    Athiests did nothing to the nativity display
    correct. even if they felt offended by the belief system represented by the nativity scene, they tolerated the expressed views of others having a different belief
    ...they [atheists] did do something however to the general holiday celebration, specifically they attempted to turn it into an ideological battle ground rather than an area of holiday celebration.
    no
    they participated in a public showing of belief systems
    until this time, there had only been one
    but the atheists did nothing other than participate in the pageant of belief systems allowed by the government - which recognized it could exclude none or that it would have to exclude all in order not to convey a preference
    a preference it is clear you believe should not have been disturbed
    you have a right to be offended by that
    and those with different beliefs have just as much right to exhibit the belief system that offends you

    great thing to be a free American; be thankful for it!
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #232
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    Good luck with that.

    Yes it is ignorant,so what?
    Ignorance isn't a crime.
    Vandalism is.
    What the atheists put up isn't the issue.
    The crime that was committed is.
    Yes it is part of the issue. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    You mean something like what you stated on post #225...
    It has to do with a mean spirited and tasteless attack on religion for no other purpose than to insult a belittle, as well as the vandalism being a similar act.

    But the thing is,it isn't a similar act.One is legal (free speech) and the other isn't (vandalism).
    We get it,you don't like what the atheists put up.
    It is your right to have that opinion.
    So what are you suggesting be done about it,if anything?
    Yes they both are pointless acts. The criminality has nothing to do with anything I said. So are you going to keep repeating the same thing over and over? Or are you going to accept I am not referring to or commenting on the legality of the vandalism because I don't care about that aspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    While that doesn't excuse the vandals actions, it does play a part in it.
    That simply isn't the correct way to look at it. That's like saying although you don't excuse the rape, the fact the girl was wearing provovative clothing played a part in it.

    I'll agree that it was a dick move for atheists to put up some of their signs in that fashion, however, it is a LEGAL dick move and it was in accordance to what the city allowed legally.

    I don't like all the "theists" putting their signs about sin and such in Las Vegas when I go visit, but it's legal. I don't like the abortion signs that are sometimes near schools, but it's legal.

    Some people just like to be dicks and it's on all sides. In this case however, the dicks that caused the whole thing to be cancelled were the vandals.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes it is part of the issue. Two wrongs don't make a right.
    No, one thing was LEGAL (putting the signs up) the other was ILLEGAL (vandalizing the signs). You're trying to equate the illegal activity with the legal one because you don't like the legal activity that was done.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    No, one thing was LEGAL (putting the signs up) the other was ILLEGAL (vandalizing the signs). You're trying to equate the illegal activity with the legal one because you don't like the legal activity that was done.
    No I am not. I am saying illegal or not they both contributed and are both stupid. I don't care about which was legal or not. It has nothing at all to do with what I am saying.

    How often do I have to repeat myself for people to understand I don't care about a low grade misdemeanor crime that amounts to the seriousness of a political sign being stolen????

    Talk about mountain out of mole hill. I am not equating the legality's at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #236
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No I am not. I am saying illegal or not they both contributed and are both stupid. I don't care about which was legal or not. It has nothing at all to do with what I am saying.

    How often do I have to repeat myself for people to understand I don't care about a low grade misdemeanor crime that amounts to the seriousness of a political sign being stolen????

    Talk about mountain out of mole hill. I am not equating the legality's at all.
    seems you are missing the point which is trying to be made
    asserting 'two wrongs don't make a right' doesn't flush
    the vandals clearly did wrong
    the same cannot be said of the atheists
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No I am not. I am saying illegal or not they both contributed and are both stupid. I don't care about which was legal or not. It has nothing at all to do with what I am saying.

    How often do I have to repeat myself for people to understand I don't care about a low grade misdemeanor crime that amounts to the seriousness of a political sign being stolen????

    Talk about mountain out of mole hill. I am not equating the legality's at all.
    And your bolded quote says it all. As long as you disagree with something, it's ok to do something illegal to stop it.

    Well then excuse ILLEGAL activity all you want. The two are not the same and it DOES MATTER which is legal and which is illegal.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    seems you are missing the point which is trying to be made
    asserting 'two wrongs don't make a right' doesn't flush
    the vandals clearly did wrong
    the same cannot be said of the atheists
    Yes it can and I did. You my friend seem to be missing my point. I don't AGAIN give a rats ass about a low grade misdemeanor that equates to stealing a political sign. It does not matter to anything I said.

    What part of "I don't care" and "irrelevant to my argument" do I need to explain in depth? So again are you going to keep repeating the same thing over and over that has already been said yet again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes it can and I did. You my friend seem to be missing my point. I don't AGAIN give a rats ass about a low grade misdemeanor that equates to stealing a political sign. It does not matter to anything I said.

    What part of "I don't care" and "irrelevant to my argument" do I need to explain in depth? So again are you going to keep repeating the same thing over and over that has already been said yet again?
    I'm fairly sure had the nativity scene been vandalized your position would be a fair bit different.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And your bolded quote says it all. As long as you disagree with something, it's ok to do something illegal to stop it.
    Yes that is exactly what I said. Nice fallacy. Hyperbole at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well then excuse ILLEGAL activity all you want. The two are not the same and it DOES MATTER which is legal and which is illegal.
    Not to my argument it doesn't. Live with it or keep repeating your self ad nauseum, it makes no difference to what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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