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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    YES it IS bad for BOTH. It isn't "secular" if the government chooses to back a specic side though. It IS backing a side by disallowing the Nativity counsel to post their scenes in THEIR spots that they got in the raffle. It isn't Christian to trash the atheist displays. That is not something I can condone. But you can't punish the Nativity counsel for the actions of a criminal. Then you set the stage for someone to "stage" destruction of property to get their opposition to lose out. This would be like Burger King getting vandlized by a NcDonalds employee, and then have the government state that McDonalds can no longer exist in a town. It was the actions of an individual that caused the problem. You can't punish an entire group for that.
    The government backed neither side.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Because peoples participation in the occasion were vandalized.
    So the actions of a few must punish the many? The actions of an individual (or individuals) must ban the right of the entire group? That is certainly not fair. If EVERYONE is banned from the park spaces...that is acceptable. Of course that STILL bothers me at some level. I think BOTH parties should be able to put up their "displays" because it is a public space. The action of a few punishes the many. Not to mention the "disallowment" of the displays ultimately HELPS one side, and punishes another. It doesn't HELP the Christian side to ban their tradition. It does however help the atheist side to say, "No displays in the park."
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So the actions of a few must punish the many? The actions of an individual (or individuals) must ban the right of the entire group? That is certainly not fair. If EVERYONE is banned from the park spaces...that is acceptable. Of course that STILL bothers me at some level. I think BOTH parties should be able to put up their "displays" because it is a public space. The action of a few punishes the many. Not to mention the "disallowment" of the displays ultimately HELPS one side, and punishes another. It doesn't HELP the Christian side to ban their tradition. It does however help the atheist side to say, "No displays in the park."

    Apparently everyone is banned now.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The government backed neither side.
    But it did. By not allowing ANY displays to be posted...then it says that the atheist side "wins" because it got EXACTLY what was desired: no religous displays. Now THEY may not be able to use it as well, but that is irrelevant. They no longer have to protest those nativity scenes. Now they can just go to the park and hand out pamphlets against religion and heckle carrolers or plot the next move to get some other religous group disallowed from something they have done forever that is essentially harmless.

    Both Sides Banned
    Yes. I understand. and I will just reitterate that it isn't fair to the Christian group. I think BOTH groups should be allowed to display their signs. It doesn't matter what the message it is. I think it is YET ANOTHER restriction on the first amendment that is NOT acceptable.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    But it did. By not allowing ANY displays to be posted...then it says that the atheist side "wins" because it got EXACTLY what was desired: no religous displays. Now THEY may not be able to use it as well, but that is irrelevant. They no longer have to protest those nativity scenes. Now they can just go to the park and hand out pamphlets against religion and heckle carrolers or plot the next move to get some other religous group disallowed from something they have done forever that is essentially harmless.



    Yes. I understand. and I will just reitterate that it isn't fair to the Christian group. I think BOTH groups should be allowed to display their signs. It doesn't matter what the message it is. I think it is YET ANOTHER restriction on the first amendment that is NOT acceptable.
    using your 'logic', a case could be made that the Christians won because by vandalizing the atheist exhibits they prevented that belief system from being exposed to the kids who would have otherwise viewed the belief system exhibits in the park
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    But it did. By not allowing ANY displays to be posted...then it says that the atheist side "wins" because it got EXACTLY what was desired: no religous displays. Now THEY may not be able to use it as well, but that is irrelevant. They no longer have to protest those nativity scenes. Now they can just go to the park and hand out pamphlets against religion and heckle carrolers or plot the next move to get some other religous group disallowed from something they have done forever that is essentially harmless.



    Yes. I understand. and I will just reitterate that it isn't fair to the Christian group. I think BOTH groups should be allowed to display their signs. It doesn't matter what the message it is. I think it is YET ANOTHER restriction on the first amendment that is NOT acceptable.

    So let's get this straight. Nopublic government sposored display of a religious holiday means "war on Christians!"

    I'm a Christian, not an atheist. Stop making a perfectly good religion look like a bunch of whiny babies.

    Saying "nobody gets it" seems the most sensible thing to do. The First Amedment does not require the government to give you a platform from which to speak.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    using your 'logic', a case could be made that the Christians won because by vandalizing the atheist exhibits they prevented that belief system from being exposed to the kids who would have otherwise viewed the belief system exhibits in the park
    No. Not at all. The "vandalizing" was a criminal act AND an unChristian message. It isn't "part of my logic" to say that "tit for tat" responses are acceptable or even LEGAL. I think the restriction of a public space inherently is unconstitutional. Not to mention why would the atheists NEED to put up displays in this park if there WAS no nativity scenes? They wouldn't. This action CLEARLY helps one side over the other. This Dix guy got EXACTLY what he desired...the free use of this space by a Christian group. His message was clear: stop the Nativity Counsel from using their space. He did JUST that. how is that fair?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    No. Not at all. The "vandalizing" was a criminal act AND an unChristian message. It isn't "part of my logic" to say that "tit for tat" responses are acceptable or even LEGAL. I think the restriction of a public space inherently is unconstitutional. Not to mention why would the atheists NEED to put up displays in this park if there WAS no nativity scenes? They wouldn't. This action CLEARLY helps one side over the other. This Dix guy got EXACTLY what he desired...the free use of this space by a Christian group. His message was clear: stop the Nativity Counsel from using their space. He did JUST that. how is that fair?
    both sides were able to construct exhibits responsive to their belief systems
    only after one of those sides had its exhibits vandalized did the government step in and eliminate all such exhibits
    both sides were treated equally; as it should be
    notice that nothing the government did prevents the Christians from erecting their exhibits on private property, such as churches
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    In California, why do the whiners and freaks always win? What about the rights of Christians, what about the rights of decent people trying to raise their children? What about the rights of those who want a peaceful civilized, decent society? No chance there, it's always the homosexuals and liberal fringe that destroy others with their endless rage and hate.

    Just stay in California. California is self destructing in order to allow your presence and abnormal behavior. Others have NO tolerance for you. You even make your own families ashamed of you.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    In California, why do the whiners and freaks always win? What about the rights of Christians, what about the rights of decent people trying to raise their children? What about the rights of those who want a peaceful civilized, decent society? No chance there, it's always the homosexuals and liberal fringe that destroy others with their endless rage and hate.

    Just stay in California. California is self destructing in order to allow your presence and abnormal behavior. Others have NO tolerance for you. You even make your own families ashamed of you.
    so the Christians had their exclusive privilege taken away when it was found they could not play well with others (who were atheists)
    and somehow you now claim they had "rights" taken away
    please identify what "rights" were removed from them
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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