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Thread: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

  1. #141
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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    My my, who's being hysterical? I am not arguing about who owns what. I am not saying that the nativity scene was owed anything,
    Yes, you ARE implying that...because you are implying that the mere PRESENCE of the atheist display MAGICALLY and INEXPLICABLY "ruins" the nativity display.

    Back to REALITY: the atheists followed the same process for getting a display space, and it is the atheists' displays, not the nativity scene, which were vandalized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    What I am saying is the ruining a 60 year christmas tradition
    The atheists DIDN'T DO ANYTHING AT ALL to the nativity display. You keep posting as if they did.

    You also keep posting as if the tradition part changes anything. It doesn't. That space doesn't belong to the nativity folks, any more than a certain seat on the bus or the train belongs to you just because you happen to get it most of the time on your commute. The holiday space belongs to the public, not to any particular constituency within that public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    to put up anti-religious signs is a vindictive dick move
    This is ultimately the core of your case. In your mind, putting up signs critical of religious faith is apparently "a dick move" no matter what.

    Never mind the fact that putting up signs doesn't prevent anyone from seeing the nativity scene. Apparently, those poor fragile Christians are just so incredibly sensitive and vulnerable that using two of the PUBLIC display spaces instead of their previous fourteen PUBLIC spaces sends their world spinning. Oh no! Whatever will they do! Wherever will they go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    and any person with any type of morals wouldn't do it. As an atheist, it makes me upset that this is how they chose to represent us.
    They did not choose to represent us, and they do NOT represent us, for better OR for worse. Their displays represent THEM, not some grand global imaginary cabal of worldwide atheist-dom.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    It's your (and my, and anyone's) prerogative and ability to judge, but that doesn't mean we're owed anything according to that judgment.



    The atheist display reflected what that atheist wanted to express during that holiday time. He is not obligated legally OR ethically to tiptoe around your completely arbitrary implication that religious messages have more of a right to that public space.



    The atheist message is no more or less appropriate for a holiday display than anything else, including an ad for the local plumber, random art, or a birdfeeder.

    This seems to be the sticking point...ONE of the following must be true of your position:

    Either:
    a) you maintain -- without explanation or warrant -- that the obviously religious nativity scene has some kind of special and superior claim to the use of public real estate for the holiday displays, such that it must be given special insulation from any contrary viewpoints or expression (which would run afoul of the separation doctrine);

    or

    b) you DON'T endorse special protection, in which case ANYONE else with ANY message (short of fighting words/open calls to break the law) must, by logical consistency, be afforded the same opportunity for using the display space.



    Once AGAIN, stop with the hysterical bull****. There has been no evidence of any such takeover. If I sit next to someone on the bus or the subway, and keep my elbows in, I have not taken over THEIR seat.



    On this point you are flat out wrong. Intolerance would be attempting to stop a religious symbol or message from even having a space at all. Ironically, it is YOUR position which is turning out to be intolerant. If we did it by your preference, the atheist display shouldn't be granted fair and equal opportunity for exposure (or at the very least, should be irrationally regarded as inappropriate or provocative despite its very mild content).



    See above. Either you play fair -- without any special protection for religious messages and symbols -- or you are actually in favor of special exemptions and protections for religious expression.



    No one is contesting the right to judge. The point is the glaring hypocrisy. You object to a very mild, tame, indirect critique of a religious symbol, but then you insist that the critique itself (the atheist display) must be open to judgement.



    You keep repeating, over and over, the contention that the atheist display somehow constitutes "being a dick", and yet thus far you haven't made so much as a gesture towards explaining what appears to be a massive double standard.



    REALITY CHECK: The atheists who set up their display did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop people from visiting the nativity display.

    Do you realize that? NOTHING.

    Your posts are becoming hysterical (not as in funny, but as in responding based upon raw emotion instead of facts).
    You have the patience of a saint.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The true hateful nature of Atheism shows it's ugly head again.
    Because vandalism is so beautiful.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Christians are angry that after 1500 years of hegemony they can't effect a sham trial and burn heretics at the stake anymore.

    Due to a thing we call the Constitution.

    Considering the deists among the founding fathers, that must really burn you.

    Like Chief Justice Roberts.
    Last edited by spanky; 11-20-12 at 09:56 PM.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Yes, you ARE implying that...because you are implying that the mere PRESENCE of the atheist display MAGICALLY and INEXPLICABLY "ruins" the nativity display.

    Back to REALITY: the atheists followed the same process for getting a display space, and it is the atheists' displays, not the nativity scene, which were vandalized.



    The atheists DIDN'T DO ANYTHING AT ALL to the nativity display. You keep posting as if they did.

    You also keep posting as if the tradition part changes anything. It doesn't. That space doesn't belong to the nativity folks, any more than a certain seat on the bus or the train belongs to you just because you happen to get it most of the time on your commute. The holiday space belongs to the public, not to any particular constituency within that public.



    This is ultimately the core of your case. In your mind, putting up signs critical of religious faith is apparently "a dick move" no matter what.

    Never mind the fact that putting up signs doesn't prevent anyone from seeing the nativity scene. Apparently, those poor fragile Christians are just so incredibly sensitive and vulnerable that using two of the PUBLIC display spaces instead of their previous fourteen PUBLIC spaces sends their world spinning. Oh no! Whatever will they do! Wherever will they go!



    They did not choose to represent us, and they do NOT represent us, for better OR for worse. Their displays represent THEM, not some grand global imaginary cabal of worldwide atheist-dom.
    You are argument has nothing to do with my argument. It doesn't matter to me whether or not it was a nativity scene, if it was Santa and his reindeer, or some naked wood nymph celebrating her pagan holiday. The point I am arguing is this isn't free speech, it's not about giving the atheist the same rights as anyone else, but this is a bad atheist thinking that they are so ****ing entitled to the same thing as everyone else, they don't give a **** what they ruin.

    I would be the first in line to protest if they wanted to change the motto of the USA to "Love Jesus or Else".

    But what I won't do is ruin a traditional Christmas display because my ****ing feelers got hurt every time I walked by the park and saw a nativity scene. What next? Take a lollipop from a child because it's shaped like a cross.
    Hail to the King baby!

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and the war on Christmas begins! Just in time for the 2012 season. Bring up a lawn chair and watch the fireworks.

    Current score: Christians, 0, Atheists, 0, but the Atheists have the ball. This one could be an exciting game.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Christians are angry that after 1500 years of hegemony they can't effect a sham trial and burn heretics at the stake anymore.

    Due to a thing we call the Constitution.

    Considering the deists among the founding fathers, that must really burn you.

    Like Chief Justice Roberts.
    Being not a Christian, this does not bother me. I very much respect our founding fathers. Bet they wouldn't get all up in a roar because of a nativity scene.
    Hail to the King baby!

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    Being not a Christian, this does not bother me. I very much respect our founding fathers. Bet they wouldn't get all up in a roar because of a nativity scene.
    There was no uproar over a nativity scene. But it does appear there was an uproar over an atheistivity scene.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Some people just don't get it.

    The founding fathers made us a Christian nation so we could require our children to say prayers in school so they would grow up to be good Christians.

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    Re: Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Oh look... atheists organizing themselves into taking a united stance... an ideological united stance against a religion, which is also an ideology. Much like a religion would. Amazing. Who would have ever perceived that atheism could start being dogmatic.

    Me. That's who.
    Gawd, not this ridiculous stance again. Hey, look - I don't do drugs. That means I really do drugs because well.... no drugs = drugs.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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