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Thread: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    When Obama proposed top treat "the rich" as anyone who made more than 250K I heard many tears dripping here about how $250K wasn't really very much money. So, why is $262K so lavish of a reward?

    My son works for a Corporation that pays its CEO close to $30 million, the CEO has 48 VPs who don't do anything but play golf and draw over a million a year. My son is well paid at about $85K and great benefits but his workload constantly increases since anyone who leaves is not replaced. My son asked to attend his Grandfathers funeral last Friday but was refused because they are so far behind in their work.

    I'm no fan of Unions and when trhey are unreasonable, I support Management but honestly, without Unions, everybody would be making $10 an hour or less while CEOs would then triple their own paychecks.
    That's so silly. If everyone were making $10 an hour or less, there wouldn't even BE any CEO's. Who'd be buying their products?
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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Just sayin its not because of the unions.
    In this case is very much would have been. They had the financial paperwork in front of them, the company had new management and drastically diminished executive pay, and the bankruptcy court had supported/guided Rayburn on the steps taken up to the strike. The union knew very well that they didn't have much, if any, wiggle room...and when Rayburn told them to read the writing on the wall they closed their eyes and didn't even allow a secondary vote, on the premise that the union members had already voted....a claim many of those same members would later deny.
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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    I did not mean to represent my opinion as being a "Universal Truth". So, I'm not referring to "everyone", I'm referring to millions of jobs that are currently unionized.

    For example, lets start with Walmart, America's largest employer that is not unionized. Maybe I'm wrong but my impression is that $10 is what they may the great majority of their employees.

    As another, closer to home example, lets take the unionized casinos of Nevada. Housekeepers are unionized and make around $14 an hour. IMHO, they would be paid $10 an hour or less if they were not unionized.

    So, it's important to realize that there ae many job categories that pay more than $10 per hour. Some are union based and some are not.

    Millions of people earn these low wages. They still have to eat and live somewhere. Some do this by sharing residences, some by various welfare methods. They still represent a substantive portion of the population.

    Perhaps if "everyone" made $10 an hour, prices would fall and they would go on living as well as anyone else.

    Of course, I could be wrong. Do you think that basic labor jobs would be paid more than $10 an hour? Do you think that CEOs concern themselves with the "greater good" and pay more than that because that's their societal contribution? Frankly, I doubt that. Each CEO is concerned with their own income and lifestyle. I have several friends who make $12.50 an hour (non-union) that haven't had a raise in 5 years while the CEOs have investing hundreds of thousands in making their offices more elaborate and have concerned themselves not a bit how degrading this is to their workers. My best friend who works for a cremation company has been bought out by the largest cemetery operator in America. They have announced there will be pay reductions and most paid holidays (such as the upcoming Friday after Thanksgiving) will be eliminated.

    Nonetheless, I see there are no parking spaces at Walmart so either America is richer than I assumed or low wages work just fine.

    My usual OPINION disclaimer applies.




    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's so silly. If everyone were making $10 an hour or less, there wouldn't even BE any CEO's. Who'd be buying their products?

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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    I should also add that we no longer live in a world where America is the only market. Chinese don't make $10 an hour but their consumerism is expanding rapidly.

    At least we know that union officials make $262K a year so maybe they are the ones supporting the economy that supports the CEOs.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's so silly. If everyone were making $10 an hour or less, there wouldn't even BE any CEO's. Who'd be buying their products?

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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    I was always under the impression that the warriors of the right were 100% fully supportive of all the money that people could make.

    I guess that goes out the window when it involves union officials.
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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    However, my actual point was that the $262K for the Union guy wasn't all that much in perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I was always under the impression that the warriors of the right were 100% fully supportive of all the money that people could make.

    I guess that goes out the window when it involves union officials.
    The Union is casting blame on the executives of Hostess making around the same amount. If the executives at Hostess are in the wrong....

    It's just another case of hypocrisy writ large.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    The Union is casting blame on the executives of Hostess making around the same amount. If the executives at Hostess are in the wrong....

    It's just another case of hypocrisy writ large.
    I would be happy to look at a list side by side of the top twenty Hostess compensation packages and compare them to the top twenty union compensation packages.
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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I would be happy to look at a list side by side of the top twenty Hostess compensation packages and compare them to the top twenty union compensation packages.
    As of March, the top four executives at Hostess will earn $1 each for this year.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    If all the workers at Hostess would reduce their salaries to $1 for the coming year, we'll be drowning in low cost Twinkies and Ding-Dongs. Indeed, if all Americans would have the patriotism and common decency to work for the next year for just $1, why America will be on top again.

    I'm sure that most Americans can live on the millions they've saved up in the past. Certainly those executives can but don't union workers also get multi-million dollar bonuses? Why are they being so self-centered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    As of March, the top four executives at Hostess will earn $1 each for this year.

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    Re: The starving Baker's Union salaries...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    The Union is casting blame on the executives of Hostess making around the same amount. If the executives at Hostess are in the wrong....

    It's just another case of hypocrisy writ large.
    Judging by an interview I read with a Hostess baker, the employees (or certainly at least this employee) didn't even understand the final offer the company made. It was in one of our posts here -- with a credible link. The guy thought they were taking 8% away this year; 3% away next year; 3% away next year; 3% away next; and, wait for it! 3% away the next year. He had his hourly salary down to, like, $10.00 an hour. That is factually wrong.

    All of the unions involved at Hostess were offered:

    • Two seats on the 8-member board
    • A 25% stake in the company
    • An 8% pay cut for one year
    • A 3% pay increase each of the next three years
    • a 1% pay increase in the fifth year of the contract
    • Pension payments were suspended until 2015
    • Health costs to employees were going to go up by 17%
    • There was probably more to it, but I've gleaned the above for dozens of sites on the internet...credible, I think.


    These cuts were on top of employees having foregone $10/week to help salvage their company for the past year...PLUS pension contributions collected from the employees of $3.60 a week were apparently NOT made by the company, and the money that should have gone INTO the employee pension funds was ending up part of the bankruptcy.

    Because they only took a voice vote to accept/decline the terms of the contract, I have a real question as to whether or not the rank-and-file even understood what was being offered. I'm thinking the union made their recommendation after an outline of the terms, and everyone just parroted the unions line.

    There was no vote taken to strike, as the president of the union figured he had that mandate from them going in. (It appears there was plenty of support for it, however, since picket lines have been maintained.)

    At the very least, I hope these negotiations going on will culminate in the union's presenting their employees with a very clear understanding of the offer on the table and a private vote.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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