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Thread: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Wouldn't it be true that government over reach and intrusion is a common small-government conservative's definition of "big government"? Let's consider recent developments. The Affordable Care Act. The two common complaints boiled down to intrusion and overreach.

    This doesn't preclude the possibility for big government conservatives. If I were to be considered in any way conservative, I'm more from this realm. We've had them since the Adams and Hamiltonian years.

    Traditionalists can easily be small-government conservatives, but see little to no problem with maintaining what they view as social cohesion. I'm not really of their sort, but it isn't unheard of (in fact it's rather common).
    complaining about big government and NOT focusing on the sheer size, in terms of people and budgets AND over reach/intrusion is somewhat missing the point. A smaller government won't have the time or budget or manpiwer to do much more than the business it has to do to keep the nation working properly except when such intrusion or over reach is deemed necessary. Really necessary.

    And I don't know any Conservative who wants to strip away from our citizens the benefit programs they've pad into and come to expect.

    As far as the affordable care act, it was enacted by a BIG government.

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by dyanaprajna2011 View Post
    Towards a nation of freedom and equality.
    How the hell will get there if we there is Big Government? We can't have both Liberty and Big Government. You can try all the wishful, "do Big Govt correctly" stuff all, but in reality they cannot coexist. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT on Nov 8th, 2012 View Post
    Over the next four years the economy will continue to rebound and we will gradually get deficits under control. The real esate market will rebound, unemployment will fall to 6.5% or below, and GDP growth will stand at 3.5 - 4%. We won't be in any wars. And conservatives will still be whining.

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    How the hell will get there if we there is Big Government? We can't have both Liberty and Big Government. You can try all the wishful, "do Big Govt correctly" stuff all, but in reality they cannot coexist. Period.
    You keep saying that, but you have yet to explain why that is. If you don't know, that's fine, but at least be honest with yourself in admitting so. You said big government doesn't work toward liberty and freedom several times now, now, instead of repeating the mantra, actually explain why that is.
    "To do good, to avoid evil, and to purify the mind, this is the teaching of all Buddhas." -the Buddha, from the Dhammapada

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by dyanaprajna2011 View Post
    You keep saying that, but you have yet to explain why that is. If you don't know, that's fine, but at least be honest with yourself in admitting so. You said big government doesn't work toward liberty and freedom several times now, now, instead of repeating the mantra, actually explain why that is.
    Perhaps a good example is DOEd, education is not a federal power (check the Constitution), there are no federal schools (except the service academies). The purpose of DOEd is largely, if not entirely, income redistribution (after skimming a bit) and forcing the states to do things that they otherwise would (or may) not do. Once a federal dept., agency or program is started, it grows and assumes much more power (gradually) than it was ever initially intended to have. It gains "supporters" that benefit from it, that support politicians to protect the status quo and add more benefits that they "need".

    Another example is the federal Agriculture department, it started as a means to assure that we, as a nation, produce a balanced, safe and steady food supply for internal consumption and export. It has since, morphed into, or evolved to spend 80% of its "budget" simply giving away free food via SNAP. This, of course, did not happen overnight or even "on purpose" yet it is a fact.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 11-18-12 at 10:15 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Jindal is an insider. Look what the tea party did in the 2010 election. I believe the issue was the conservative base stayed away. We never had a choice. Vote between the one punch kid and his left, or the father of nationalized health care. So he he wants them to look more like the democrats? Wow thats novel why not just vote for the dems and save ourselves the trouble.

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by dyanaprajna2011 View Post
    I disagree. If you would have read what I posted, I said that there's nothing wrong with big government, as long as it's utilized properly.
    The sad truth is that the majority of GOP voters, who are mostly White poor working class folk, do not want a free market where no one gets handouts, because, after all, they're poor, and all poor people want handouts.

    The only different between the lower-middle class GOP voter and a cafe liberal is that the former doesn't like to admit that he wants a handout. Saying he likes a welfare-free government makes him feel proud, but when he gets to the polls, ultimately, his pocketbook will do the talking.

    Then the natural questions is: well, if these working-class GOP voters desperately want handouts, why do they keep voting the party that claims to want to deny handouts to the poor?

    The reason is that these working-class GOP folk believe that the Dems will take some of the handouts that are supposed to belong to White people like them and give it to Latinos, Blacks, gays, etc. In other words, their fear is that they will lose welfare benefits to people of color.

    So, in a nutshell, the right wing--which consists predominantly of uneducated, working class people, is almost just as much for welfare for the poor as the cafe liberals in the Democratic Party. They just want all the welfare checks for them, i. e. White people, as opposed to "minorities."

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Perhaps a good example is DOEd, education is not a federal power (check the Constitution), there are no federal schools (except the service academies). The purpose of DOEd is largely, if not entirely, income redistribution (after skimming a bit) and forcing the states to do things that they otherwise would (or may) not do. Once a federal dept., agency or program is started, it grows and assumes much more power (gradually) than it was ever initially intended to have. It gains "supporters" that benefit from it, that support politicians to protect the status quo and add more benefits that they "need".

    Another example is the federal Agriculture department, it started as a means to assure that we, as a nation, produce a balanced, safe and steady food supply for internal consumption and export. It has since, morphed into, or evolved to spend 80% of its "budget" simply giving away free food via SNAP. This, of course, did not happen overnight or even "on purpose" yet it is a fact.
    I'll address the DOE first. Our public school systems are in the crapper. Whether this is because of federal government involvement, or in spite of it, I don't know. Regardless, something has to be done, and it's obvious the states aren't going to do anything about, maybe because they can't, or maybe because they won't. But if something is wrong amongst a majority of the states, sometimes federal involvement could be seen to be necessary, if only for a time.

    As far as the DOA, I think this is somewhat unfortunate that so much is not going to actual agriculture, but this by no means means SNAP is a bad idea. I agree that 80% is too much, so that should be cut back, but I don't think that it should be done away with completely, since the economy is such that there are many people who have to choose between bills and groceries. But, since we do have the food stamp program, the amount of money going to SNAP seems to be a bit much.
    "To do good, to avoid evil, and to purify the mind, this is the teaching of all Buddhas." -the Buddha, from the Dhammapada

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesral View Post
    Jindal is an insider. Look what the tea party did in the 2010 election. I believe the issue was the conservative base stayed away. We never had a choice. Vote between the one punch kid and his left, or the father of nationalized health care. So he he wants them to look more like the democrats? Wow thats novel why not just vote for the dems and save ourselves the trouble.
    Of course Jindal is an insider. If he goes outside, the tea party nutjobs will beat him senseless due to his ethnicity.

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The sad truth is that the majority of GOP voters, who are mostly White poor working class folk, do not want a free market where no one gets handouts, because, after all, they're poor, and all poor people want handouts.

    The only different between the lower-middle class GOP voter and a cafe liberal is that the former doesn't like to admit that he wants a handout. Saying he likes a welfare-free government makes him feel proud, but when he gets to the polls, ultimately, his pocketbook will do the talking.

    Then the natural questions is: well, if these working-class GOP voters desperately want handouts, why do they keep voting the party that claims to want to deny handouts to the poor?

    The reason is that these working-class GOP folk believe that the Dems will take some of the handouts that are supposed to belong to White people like them and give it to Latinos, Blacks, gays, etc. In other words, their fear is that they will lose welfare benefits to people of color.

    So, in a nutshell, the right wing--which consists predominantly of uneducated, working class people, is almost just as much for welfare for the poor as the cafe liberals in the Democratic Party. They just want all the welfare checks for them, i. e. White people, as opposed to "minorities."
    This may be true. Slight racist tendencies still run through red states, and that's not just a blanket statement. Nearly all of my friends and family still hold to racist tendencies. So I can see this being the case. Also, pride is another characteristic that people in red states have traditionally grown up with, again, this is firsthand knowledge. So, I can see this actually being the case. I've thought for some time that there are those who vote Republican who are voting against their interests.
    "To do good, to avoid evil, and to purify the mind, this is the teaching of all Buddhas." -the Buddha, from the Dhammapada

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    Re: Bobby Jindal: GOP Should 'Stop Being The Stupid Party'

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Of course Jindal is an insider. If he goes outside, the tea party nutjobs will beat him senseless due to his ethnicity.
    Awe thats sweet and so typical of you libs. Honestly the inclusion card ? We cant, make this **** up fast enough to stay ahead of you people. So now were bigoted toward a "Specter Republican"! Since your so concerned- you take him. And while your at it take the lame stream republican party. They're all starting to look more like your bunch anyway.

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