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Thread: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Really? That's your comeback? Just a dismissal of sources?
    Well, I thought Sherman 123 did a pretty effective job of detailing why the sources were so lame. When people post unbelievable garbage and cite wacked out far left - or far right - authorities as their source, it's all they deserve. It's like the 'Americans kill 1 million - or 2 million - or 10 million Iraqis ' posts that keep getting on this forum. They simple aren't worth the time necessary to refute their outrageous claims.
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    For me this is one of the biggest frustrations about our "Democracy." These immoral and illegal attacks were going to continue regardless of whether Obama or Romney got in. There should be protests in the streets over this injustice and stupidity. Do you know of any organizations that plan to raise hell over this?
    Duh! I've been saying this whole time. Republocrats are the status quo. No difference between Obama and Romney. Bomb bomb bomb because forever war is necessary for authoritative fascism. Obama will continue the wars because it is good got Republocrat power and the corporations which supports them. No difference. To pretend so is an exercise in insanity.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #103
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    No, an irrational fear would be one based on no history. And it's not fear - it's a practical concern which makes me heartily rejoice every time one of them is blown to bits by american technology.
    Do you similarly.cheer as.these wars excuse excessive growth of government power and debt while pour own liberties are whittled away to nothing? Short sighted, emotionally compromised arguments are not only dangerous, that serve no purpose and will never drive us to a better state.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  4. #104
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, BIJ's numbers actually are good as their methodology is based on finding multiple sources for drone strike incidents. (Covert US strikes in Pakistan,Yemen and Somalia – our methodology: The Bureau of Investigative Journalism)



    While they do use Pakistani, Yemeni, and Somali sources, their assertions are also backed up with evidence from "the New America Foundation, Critical Threats, Long War Journal, Jamestown Foundation, Jihadology, Empty Wheel, Wired, WikiLeaks, the UN and Amnesty International" and "CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, Fox News, Reuters, the BBC, Associated Press, the Guardian, the Telegraph, the Independent, TIME, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Nation, the Atlantic, Salon, Xinhua, Army Times, Navy Times, Bloomberg, AFP, NPR, Al Jazeera, and Al Arabiya." Thus, the sources are quite diverse and thus the possibility of bias decreases.

    You say that both the Long War Journal and the New America Foundation "have estimates for militant lows and highs and civilian lows and highs, they break down as 1,600-2,800 and 150-190 respectively." However, I have to ask, in what month and year did you post this? The data changes frequently. Secondly, you rely mainly on LWJ and the NAF. Both of which are quite good sources, no doubt, but one cannot possibly get a full picture of the civilian casualties that drones have when focusing on only two sources.

    In 2012, Columbia Law School's Counterterrorism and Human Rights Project, in conjunction with the Center for Civilians in Conflict conducted a study in which they concluded that (http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/de...mendations.pdf)



    The study (http://web.law.columbia.edu/sites/de...f%20Drones.pdf) itself states that US drone strikes actually hurt US interests in Pakistan.



    It also notes that drone strikes can potentially create terrorists:
    1. I actually cited BIJ's civilian death toll numbers, which stand in fantastic contrast to the "1 terrorist for 50 dead" statistics since even their numbers acknowledge that vastly more militants than civilians have been killed.

    2. I'm not sure what your litany of news outlets is referencing, statistical analysis of casualties in Pakistan from drone strikes has only been carried out by a few organizations. Confirmation or republishing stories is not research, and certainly Xinhua and Wired aren't conducting such research. Moreover I know for a fact that others like the Jamestown Foundation haven't published anything of the sort, and quite to the contrary as I've written for them in the past and I've spoken with Glenn Howard before on this subject. Two years ago Jamestown released a statistical and qualitative analysis piece on the drone war (The Jamestown Foundation: New Light on the Accuracy of the CIA’s Predator Drone Campaign in Pakistan) which stands in line with the casualty ratios that have been deduced from virtually every major research firm and think tank from RAND to the Eurasia Group. Almost uniformly Western sources castigate Pakistani media accounts and totals.

    3. The months and years are current, you need only click the links. The LWJ is probably the most respected source on the subject, and Bill Roggio has a network of sources throughout AfPak and a team that works to analyze local media reports, open source intelligence, and deep ranks of former analysts to assist in the work. But both are up to date to the current year and drone strike.

    4. The Colombia Report was and is a report, not a study. It consists of analysis and author insight based on cited accounts, I could cite a hundred of these right back for you heck I've probably contributed to one or two. The RAND study is taken as a superior standard and has wider currency in policy circles because it was based on quantitative research and had a replicatable methodology and concluded that there was a negative or non-existent correlation between drone strikes and recruitment efforts.

    5. Yemen is a completely different environment, but again linking the problems in Yemen or the growth of Islamist groups to drone strikes is a classic example of Yemeni's both in the country and their expatriot writers scapegoating to avoid pointing culpability at Yemen itself.

  5. #105
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    You know, I've been posting on this forum for about two years or so, and have somewhere close to 2000 'likes', so apparently not everybody agrees with you. I'm willing to live with your disapproval, painful though it is.

    Have a great day. I'd suggest the 'ignore' function on the forum for you with respect to my posts.
    Anyone can preach to a choir full of morlocks that agree with them. Doesn't translate to you posting anything of intellectual worth

  6. #106
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    You label yourself a 'Progressive', so I find it difficult to believe that you ever supported it. But since you don't believe in striking back at those who want to kill us, we really don't have much of a basis for discussion of the issue.
    Well, I wasn't always a progressive either. Hell, I voted for GW. My views have greatly changed as a result of my life experiences.

  7. #107
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    A celebratory bombing of a foreign country. LBJ would be so proud.

    I love these threads where the "I'm more left than you are" Obama supporters cat fight each other. Thanks for the entertainment.

    Don't you just hate it when you don't have W to kick around any more? Then you all agree again.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    Killing a terrorist is injustice?
    Its everyone else unfortunate enough to be in the area that im concerned about.

  9. #109
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Well, I wasn't always a progressive either. Hell, I voted for GW. My views have greatly changed as a result of my life experiences.
    Yeah, mine too. I've become much more liberal on social issues and much more hard line on foreign policy.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    Again that is so minuscule
    Try telling that to a family member of one of the victims.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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