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UPDATE: New Jersey utility denies turning away nonunion electric crew volunteers from

Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Harry Guerrilla said:
Because there aren't likely a lot of people, with a home and experience in fixing power grid problems.
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This is about hiring experienced union people who have been out of work for whatever reasons. Not about just hiring anyone. I don't know why you would think I mean that.



I think your reasoning is foolish and short sited.
Disaster clean up /= power line worker.
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Okay. The unions want to make sure their guys who DO have this kind of experience are put to work first.
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Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
This is about hiring experienced union people who have been out of work for whatever reasons. Not about just hiring anyone. I don't know why you would think I mean that.
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So it's perfectly acceptable to delay repairs, so that they can do a job search for people who may not even exist?

ChrisL said:
Okay. The unions want to make sure their guys who DO have this kind of experience are put to work first.
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This is just silly nonsense.
Do you apply this "local only" policy to disaster relief money to?

The locals should only pay for it after all, they come first.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
What is the difference between finding trained and experienced people at home FIRST, and then if you need more looking elsewhere?



I don't agree. I think it is better and more helpful to the local economy to hire the locals first instead of going right away to outsource work to other people in other states. And it would not stop the problems from being fixed now. There are plenty of people who are experienced in disaster cleanups. This is not our FIRST storm here in the Northeast.
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Good grief, woman!!

This isn't some piddly little localized storm that knocked down a few power poles. There are lines that need repair, transformers that need to be replaced, crap that needs to be cleared before even temporary fixes can be applied. If every high voltage guy in NJ came to work it still wouldn't be enough.

If they stuck to their guns and kept things strictly NJ locals then it might take 6 months to get everyone back up and running. If they accept assistance then it can get done in a week or so. If it takes a month then all the people that rely on electricity for things like computers to run their business or lights so that their customers can see what they are doing are not going to be able to do their job either. You're basically going to tell the whole eastern half of the state that they are SOL as far as getting their lives and economy together just because you want to protect yourself from TEMPORARY help.



I really can't believe that this is even an issue......how the hell can people - and it's not just one of you - be this incredibly .... ..... never mind.
 
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Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

I don't know what is so hard to understand about the word "first." That doesn't mean "only." There is a BIG difference between those words. I mean to make sure that all of the local people who are skilled and out of work should be given work. It wouldn't take ANY longer.

So I guess this means some of you must agree with outsourcing jobs, because that is what it is if you don't hire the local people and just outsource to get it cheaper or free.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Lutherf said:
ChrisL said:
Good grief, woman!!

This isn't some piddly little localized storm that knocked down a few power poles. There are lines that need repair, transformers that need to be replaced, crap that needs to be cleared before even temporary fixes can be applied. If every high voltage guy in NJ came to work it still wouldn't be enough.

If they stuck to their guns and kept things strictly NJ locals then it might take 6 months to get everyone back up and running. If they accept assistance then it can get done in a week or so. If it takes a month then all the people that rely on electricity for things like computers to run their business or lights so that their customers can see what they are doing are not going to be able to do their job either. You're basically going to tell the whole eastern half of the state that they are SOL as far as getting their lives and economy together just because you want to protect yourself from TEMPORARY help.



I really can't believe that this is even an issue......how the hell can people - and it's not just one of you - be this incredibly .... ..... never mind.
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Good grief yourself. Refer to my post above. It wouldn't take any longer. And yes, a LOT of people would be HAPPY with temporary work.
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Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
I don't know what is so hard to understand about the word "first." That doesn't mean "only." There is a BIG difference between those words. I mean to make sure that all of the local people who are skilled and out of work should be given work. It wouldn't take ANY longer.

So I guess this means some of you must agree with outsourcing jobs, because that is what it is if you don't hire the local people and just outsource to get it cheaper or free.
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It has nothing to do with outsourcing and has everything to do with normalizing people's lives in a disaster event.
Delaying recovery and charitable aid, to possibly offer some temporary jobs to locals, is retarded.

It literally defies reason, that anyone would argue such a position.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Harry Guerrilla said:
It has nothing to do with outsourcing and has everything to do with normalizing people's lives in a disaster event.
Delaying recovery and charitable aid, to possibly offer some temporary jobs to locals, is retarded.

It literally defies reason, that anyone would argue such a position.
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What I suggested would not delay anything. The unions know how many guys are on the bench.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
What I suggested would not delay anything.
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Yes it would, getting new line workers takes time and paperwork, often includes additional training.
Regardless of the story's truthfulness, supporting such a position, as you have, makes virtually no sense.

Do you really think the majority of people give two ****s if the guy who fixes their power issues is a local union member or not?
Most likely no, they'd just be grateful that they could have power again.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Harry Guerrilla said:
Yes it would, getting new line workers takes time and paperwork, often includes additional training.
Regardless of the story's truthfulness, supporting such a position, as you have, makes virtually no sense.

Do you really think the majority of people give two ****s if the guy who fixes their power issues is a local union member or not?
Most likely no, they'd just be grateful that they could have power again.
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Some of those people ARE local union members, so yes I'm sure there are people who do care. People who are ALREADY qualified. The number of qualified people is besides the point. I just said to make sure that those who are qualified are given a job too.

Are you saying there are no already qualified people in the local area who are out of work? People who don't have to be trained.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
Some of those people ARE local union members, so yes I'm sure there are people who do care. People who are ALREADY qualified. The number of qualified people is besides the point. I just said to make sure that those who are qualified are given a job too.
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So you're in an area that is without power, running water, you're in a shelter running on generators.
Gas supplies are unreliable at best, but by god, the guy who fixes the power lines better be a local union worker.

Me thinks your priorities are screwed up.


ChrisL said:
Are you saying there are no already qualified people in the local area who are out of work? People who don't have to be trained.
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We don't know, but we do know, that there are people available to help restore power now, with training and equipment.
1 in the hand, is worth more than 2 on the bush.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

It would be the union who is upset, correct? Why? Because they have guys that are still out of work and could be put to work instead of outsourcing the work? That is what I got out of the story.

I don't think that is wrong. And this would be the electrical workers union for the electric companies (whatever it's called), therefore their workers should already know how to do this type of work. Like I said, I don't mean to just hire all the local people who don't know what they're doing. I'm talking about the local union workers who would be losing out on a job.

If you don't have to train them, how would it take any longer than to get workers from out of state?
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
It would be the union who is upset, correct? Why? Because they have guys that are still out of work and could be put to work instead of outsourcing the work? That is what I got out of the story.

I don't think that is wrong. And this would be the electrical workers union for the electric companies (whatever it's called), therefore their workers should already know how to do this type of work. Like I said, I don't mean to just hire all the local people who don't know what they're doing. I'm talking about the local union workers who would be losing out on a job.

If you don't have to train them, how would it take any longer than to get workers from out of state?
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You're making an assumption that there are line workers, out of work.
Do you know this for a fact?
How long have they been out of work?
Do they need retraining for being out of work?

You don't know any of this, but assume there are ready and waiting people.

Well there are ready and waiting volunteers, that can restore power quicker than what you propose.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Now if the union was just being greedy and wanting all the work for themselves and just wanted the job to take longer, then I would not agree with that at all. But I don't know if they have unemployed people who are already sitting on the bench just waiting for work.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Harry Guerrilla said:
You're making an assumption that there are line workers, out of work.
Do you know this for a fact?
How long have they been out of work?
Do they need retraining for being out of work?

You don't know any of this, but assume there are ready and waiting people.

Well there are ready and waiting volunteers, that can restore power quicker than what you propose.
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Oh? See my post above. And I could say that you don't really know either. :mrgreen:
 
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Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
Oh? See my post above. And I could say that you don't really know either. :mrgreen:
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You're right, I don't.
I do know that there are people available, who came on their own accord to assist and repair downed power lines.
It seems that local utilities took advantage of these people and put them to work.

Why do you think they did so, rather than hire a new batch of line workers?
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Harry Guerrilla said:
You're right, I don't.
I do know that there are people available, who came on their own accord to assist and repair downed power lines.
It seems that local utilities took advantage of these people and put them to work.

Why do you think they did so, rather than hire a new batch of line workers?
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This is just one reason why the story is not complete. It doesn't say if they have enough help already or if they still need help. It only says that union turned them away (in Maggie's link). It doesn't say why though.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Lutherf said:
I absolutely agree. In fact, this would be a really good time for them to negotiate better pay and benefits. may as well take care of that stuff while you have leverage, right? Besides, all those people without electricity - sitting there in the cold and dark - will only come to appreciate the unions more once they get service back.:roll:
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Its up to the company to PAY to get the electricity turned on..see utilities are PRIVATE COMPANIES that dont lose money ever...like the oil companies they dont sell anything PEOPLE MUST HAVE WHAT THEY SELL...NJ especially pays through the NOSE for electricity...the investors just have to take less and PAY for the disaster like everyone else does...after THEY PAY all New Jersey workers then of course use volunteers...but dont try and use volunteeers just not to PAY the workers...see the difference..>LOL ..I doubt you will
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

lpast said:
Its up to the company to PAY to get the electricity turned on..see utilities are PRIVATE COMPANIES that dont lose money ever...like the oil companies they dont sell anything PEOPLE MUST HAVE WHAT THEY SELL...NJ especially pays through the NOSE for electricity...the investors just have to take less and PAY for the disaster like everyone else does...after THEY PAY all New Jersey workers then of course use volunteers...but dont try and use volunteeers just not to PAY the workers...see the difference..>LOL ..I doubt you will
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Ok....I'll do this slow so that you can keep up.....If businesses in NJ can't function because they don't have electricity then nobody is going to be working and if nobody is working then they aren't getting a paycheck from the businesses that aren't open so it's going to be pretty difficult for people to pay for their electricity that they aren't getting because they're waiting for the unions to sort out who is eligible to help and who isn't.

Now, that being said, you do have a valid point in that all of this can be prevented by just not getting the electricity back up. That way everyone's rates will be nice and low and the Unions can kick out anyone they want because electricity will be a total non-issue.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

NYC Marathon now officially cancelled for Saturday
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

ChrisL said:
Some of those people ARE local union members, so yes I'm sure there are people who do care. People who are ALREADY qualified. The number of qualified people is besides the point. I just said to make sure that those who are qualified are given a job too.

Are you saying there are no already qualified people in the local area who are out of work? People who don't have to be trained.
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I just can't believe this.....

Seriously, Chris, if your house was on fire and slowly burning to the ground and the fire department needed more help would you want them to tell the 6 guys with a truck and hoses to back off until they checked with retirees and called around to see if anybody that got RIF'd is available?
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Lutherf said:
Ok....I'll do this slow so that you can keep up.....If businesses in NJ can't function because they don't have electricity then nobody is going to be working and if nobody is working then they aren't getting a paycheck from the businesses that aren't open so it's going to be pretty difficult for people to pay for their electricity that they aren't getting because they're waiting for the unions to sort out who is eligible to help and who isn't.


Now, that being said, you do have a valid point in that all of this can be prevented by just not getting the electricity back up. That way everyone's rates will be nice and low and the Unions can kick out anyone they want because electricity will be a total non-issue.
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I would go slow but I dont really care if you understand me or not and this is the last ill say on this....when your a profit taking company...like electric utilities THAT NEVER LOSE MONEY...always make profit...its guaranteed profit...they dont have to spend millions upon millions in advertising their cost to do business is far lower than all other retailers...THEY MUST PAY THEIR WORKERS to get them up and running and once they are all being PAID then by all means use volunteers...but you do not use volunteers to screw workers out of work....thanks for playing thats all I have to say...:)
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

The good news for New Jersey crews who refused help from non-union volunteers is that, apparently, they aren't the most stupid people out there. It seems that some folks in Bridgeport, CT have managed to claim that title as they pelted utility workers who were repairing services in their community with eggs because the mayor claimed that they were working on wealthy neighborhoods first.

Utility workers pelted with eggs after Bridgeport, Conn. mayor blasts provider | Fox News

Congratulations Bridgeport! You have achieved "supreme epic stupidity" status.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

Lutherf said:
The good news for New Jersey crews who refused help from non-union volunteers is that, apparently, they aren't the most stupid people out there. It seems that some folks in Bridgeport, CT have managed to claim that title as they pelted utility workers who were repairing services in their community with eggs because the mayor claimed that they were working on wealthy neighborhoods first.

Utility workers pelted with eggs after Bridgeport, Conn. mayor blasts provider | Fox News

Congratulations Bridgeport! You have achieved "supreme epic stupidity" status.
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Classless. Staggeringly stupid.
 
Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

haymarket said:
The vitriolic anti-union hatred from the far right continues unabated.
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Unions are denying basic services to people who just weathered a catastrophic storm.
 
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