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Thread: UPDATE: New Jersey utility denies turning away nonunion electric crew volunteers from

  1. #311
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    After all we have been through together - me slaughtering every single comment that you have posted and totally embarrassing you in public, and now you want to turn away from your therapeutic growth as a person?

    I just dont understand it

    I hope it wasnt the invoices I sent you the other week - I thought we agreed on my 30 minute block fee charges and that you were to handle the costs of your medication

    Are you renegging on our agreement?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm gonna have ta say no. Nothing against you personally, I'm just busy. Ask some other people, though; try the CT subforum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    So you admit that you have been dragging around garbage all your life?

    Well I agree with you on that point

    First time for everything folks

    ecofart and I are now mates - friends for life
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, I ignored them because I think they're garbage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    I noticed that you were petrified at dealing with the other points raised in my post

    Thats understandable - you deny the chains that encircle your limbs and shut your ears to the rattle of your corporate ball thar drags behind you

    You dont have much time left to act ecofart - the last place you should be wasting your time in, is the INTERNET CHAT ABYSS - especially the politically impotent forums
    This is so exciting! Keep it up you guys are quite entertaining right now.
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  2. #312
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    This is so exciting! Keep it up you guys are quite entertaining right now.
    Had my fun; however, the last post referring to me 'getting pwnd'/'running away' and a non-existing (and apparently derogatory, claiming I'm on meds) agreement was too creepy. I'm not sure what he supposedly gets for 'giving me meds', and I don't wanna know.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-04-12 at 03:24 PM.

  3. #313
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    After all we have been through together - me slaughtering every single comment that you have posted and totally embarrassing you in public, and now you want to turn away from your therapeutic growth as a person?

    I just dont understand it

    I hope it wasnt the invoices I sent you the other week - I thought we agreed on my 30 minute block fee charges and that you were to handle the costs of your medication

    Are you renegging on our agreement?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm gonna have ta say no. Nothing against you personally, I'm just busy. Ask some other people, though; try the CT subforum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    So you admit that you have been dragging around garbage all your life?

    Well I agree with you on that point

    First time for everything folks

    ecofart and I are now mates - friends for life
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, I ignored them because I think they're garbage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klown View Post
    I noticed that you were petrified at dealing with the other points raised in my post

    Thats understandable - you deny the chains that encircle your limbs and shut your ears to the rattle of your corporate ball thar drags behind you

    You dont have much time left to act ecofart - the last place you should be wasting your time in, is the INTERNET CHAT ABYSS - especially the politically impotent forums
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Had my fun; however, the last post referring to me 'getting pwnd'/'running away' and a non-existing (and apparently derogatory, claiming I'm on meds) agreement was too creepy. I'm not even sure what he supposedly gets for giving me my meds, and I don't wanna know.
    Call me weird, but I thought the whole exchange was funny as hell.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  4. #314
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    YOU posted after the update... several hours in fact. Guess you couldn't be bothered to check... you'd prefer to just believe the "liberal evil, conservative good" edict regardless of accuracy. Excon has the excuse that he didn't post after 12:43... but perhaps you "right wing hacks" might not have reacted so quickly with your partisanship. And, let's see which of you shows some integrity and admits they were wrong. Then I can indicate who is and is not pathetic.
    So what of my edit?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  5. #315
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    So what of my edit?
    I read the 31 page email that the Alabama crew got. It was legalese gobbledygook that no one could understand. However, it was between the national organization of the IEBW, NOT any organization from NJ. The Alabama people never actually spoke with anyone from NJ to discuss the matter... they admitted that on the video from my link. The IEBW in NJ has been clear about allowing non-union workers to work during this crisis. There are crews doing this, currently.

    As far as your link... it's from a decidedly conservative site. I give it as much credence as the Alabama situation... which has been shown to be false. None. Present a non-partisan site discussing the Georgia situation and I'll consider it having some credibility. Until then, it has none.

    So, are you going to admit you were wrong about the Alabama crew?
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  6. #316
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The only hackery being presented is yours. I LIVE in NJ and I have been following this story. No one was turned away... that's the misrepresentation that the extreme rightwing hacks are presenting. The quotes that you made tell part of the story. No one was turned away; while the crew was waiting for clarification on how to proceed. They received a report that they WRONGFULLY believed was from the NJ IEBW that implied a requirement of their employees to agree to union affiliation while working in the New York and New Jersey areas. While waiting for that clarification, they realized that Seaside Heights had received the help requested from other sources. There are plenty of crews from California, Michigan, Ohio, and all throughout the state. I've seen them. A crew from Michigan restored my power, yesterday. And companies are accepting non-union crews without a problem. The issue was that the report was NOT from the IEBW, but from the Electric Cities of Alabama, a coalition of the state's municipally owned utilities being concerned about non-union workers. Bottom line, it appears now that Decatur Utilities wrongly assumed they would have to agree to the union contract before traveling to New Jersey to help with recovery efforts. The IBEW said in times of crisis, help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers.

    Here is the ACCURATE story from Alabama:



    The video also indicates that there was no contact between the Alabama crew and NJ unions. The representative admits that the document came from Alabama Electric and he decided to pull his crew based on being confused by it and timing.

    Also, the "confusing" agreement that was being discussed was with the IEBW... the NATIONAL organization. NJ local IEBW has consistently said that they will accept non-union workers in times of crisis; there are plenty of non-union workers there right now. There was never any contact between Alabama and local NJ workers.

    Right wing hacks always get this sort of stuff wrong. They just don't research because of their partisan blinders. I'm glad I could correct all of the misinformation in this thread.
    You are so far off base with your right wing comment that it is ridiculous.
    Secondly, it should be left wing/liberal hackery, and you are doing a great job at it yourself by saying such about the right.

    It's like you assumed something was being argued that wasn't. Strange. You should at least read and understand what is being said before commenting.


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The only hackery being presented is yours.
    The actual hackery was that which was provided by those who I assume are on the left.
    They wanted the Unions to be put before those that needed help from a disaster.
    That is absolute hackery, and it is wrong.
    So obviously wrong that even the Unions agree with the position that I took. They welcome the help.

    Even though the initial reports were wrong, the hacks were astonishingly ok with it as reported, and supported what had supposedly happened.
    Their argued position is ridiculous, untenable and above all, still Hackery and wrong. As shown.

    And for the most part, that was what this thread had been about. Disputing their hackery.
    And you want to claim that the only hackery was mine. Your claim is absurd.



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No one was turned away...
    Had your bothered to read the thread you would have noticed that over 150 post previously I made the following reply.


    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    From the article.

    UPDATE: Jersey Central Power & Light spokesman Ron Morano told Cablevision’s News12 on Friday that his company has accepted help from all crews. “We have not turned away any help,” he said. “Absolutely not.”

    ... other workers in a coastal New Jersey town told them they couldn’t lend a hand without a union card.

    that crews in Seaside Heights, N.J. turned him and his crewmates away, saying they couldn’t do any work there because they’re not union employees.

    Clearly at that point it was understood that they were not purposely turned away by the Union, and I have even said such.

    And at which point the argument became; "The power company did not turn them away, the Union Workers did."

    Which also shows that I was keeping abreast of the story.

    Not only that, but roughly 23 hours before your post, I made the following reply quoting the "Official Press Release" clearly indicating that I was clearly keeping abreast of the story and it changes.

    Added green underlining and highlighting to further your understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Except that entirely it wasn't.
    They were still mislead which resulted in their not helping. Which is the gist of the story.
    From your above link.


    The general manager of the other department mentioned, Decatur Utilities, has since verified claims that his workers were asked to affiliate with a union.

    And your above link, links to the following entry which contains the press release.

    "Decatur Utilities sent a 6-man crew to the Northeast Wednesday, October 31, bound for Seaside Heights, N.J., to assist with power restoration. Communication with Seaside Heights was poor due to lack of cell phone service in the area. Upon arriving at a staging area in Virginia, crews were held in place pending clarification of documents received from IBEW that implied a requirement of our employees to agree to union affiliation while working in the New York and New Jersey areas. It was and remains our understanding that agreeing to those requirements was a condition of being allowed to work in those areas. As we waited for clarification, we became aware that Seaside Heights had received the assistance they needed from other sources. To be clear, at no time were our crews 'turned away' from the utility in Seaside Heights.

    "In connection with state and regional public power associations, Decatur Utilities attempted to contact other areas that needed assistance. However, based on the uncertainty of union requirements that we could not agree to and the uncertainty of whether a resolution could be reached, we ultimately made the decision to return them to Decatur after being stalled in the Virginia area most of the day on Thursday."

    Decatur Utilities verifies claims workers were asked to affiliate with union before aiding storm victims (update) | al.com



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    And, as quoted, that bad information lead to their leaving.

    Which shouldn't have happened.
    Bottom line, it appears now that Decatur Utilities wrongly assumed they would have to agree to the union contract before traveling to New Jersey to help with recovery efforts.
    Your comment deserves a "Doh" because you are just presenting the same thing.
    That bad information lead to their leaving like I said.
    Which shouldn't have happened, as I said.



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The IBEW said in times of crisis, help is welcomed from union and non-union utility workers.
    And thereby showing that the leftist/liberal hacks were wrong from the get, as was previously shown.

  7. #317
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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Excon has the excuse that he didn't post after 12:43... but perhaps you "right wing hacks" might not have reacted so quickly with your partisanship. And, let's see which of you shows some integrity and admits they were wrong. Then I can indicate who is and is not pathetic.
    Then I would suggest you admit you were wrong about me.
    And again, the hackery was from those on the left supporting and defending the Unions actions in the original presentation.
    Even though it didn't happen, it doesn't change the fact that they were fully in support of it at the expense of disaster victims.
    Dianna summed it up quite nicely.


    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm sure this is woefully off topic by now, but I just read the article.

    I am frankly disgusted that this tragedy was compounded by politics when non-union volunteers... you know, people who are giving their time and expertise for free... are turned away to protect union workers, who most certainly will NOT give their time and expertise for free. Millions of people without electricity, and the unions are willing to make those people wait days, maybe weeks, longer to have electrical service reestablished and at considerable cost to the state, a cost that could have been substantially reduced by utilizing these volunteers.

    This isn't a pro-or-anti union issue. It's a pro-humanity issue, people being prevented from helping those in terrible distress for free so that those same people can be price-gouged and have their service delayed out of pure protectionism and unadulterated greed.
    Even though the report was wrong, the hacks on the left supported the reported action.
    That is the sad part about this whole thing, and yet you do not want to recognize that (or at least haven't), and would rather make false claims of hackery.
    Doubly shameful.

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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The actual hackery was that which was provided by those who I assume are on the left. They wanted the Unions to be put before those that needed help from a disaster. That is absolute hackery, and it is wrong.
    This is wrong. I was arguing that the union workers who are trained to do this kind of work should be put to work along with the volunteers, but not to call in volunteers if there are qualified union people on the bench. It only takes a phone call to get them mobilized, especially since the union ALREADY has an existing contract with the power company (ies). Everyone was arguing that it would take too long and blah, blah, blah, and when I asked them why it would take too long, the best thing they could come up with is paperwork or something along those lines, which is bull since that should already be taken care of.

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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is wrong. I was arguing that the union workers who are trained to do this kind of work should be put to work along with the volunteers, but not to call in volunteers if there are qualified union people on the bench. It only takes a phone call to get them mobilized, especially since the union ALREADY has an existing contract with the power company (ies). Everyone was arguing that it would take too long and blah, blah, blah, and when I asked them why it would take too long, the best thing they could come up with is paperwork or something along those lines, which is bull since that should already be taken care of.
    No you weren't.
    Your second post in the topic. Post #25.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    They can easily get in-state union guys to do the work. The workers who reside in the state should get the work IMO.
    No, you were not arguing what you now say you were.
    And it is why many were telling you, you were wrong.

    Your third post.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    At the expense of the people whose lives are devastated?
    How is it "at the expense of the people?" They will still get help.

    Shall I continue?
    It only gets more damning.


    Your forth post.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's a laugh. There are more than enough "trained" people that already exist in NJ that could handle the work.

    I care about giving the people who live in those communities the opportunity for the work FIRST. A lot of people are DYING for a job and work and money.

    Your fifth Post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is about out-of-state workers coming in to take jobs from locals.

    Like I said, it only gets more damning.
    Should I continue?
    Last edited by Excon; 11-04-12 at 06:23 PM.

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    Re: Union Thuggary at it's Finest

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No you weren't.
    Your second post in the topic. Post #25.




    No, you were not arguing what you now say you were.
    And it is why many were telling you, you were wrong.

    Your third post.





    Shall I continue?
    It only gets more damning.


    Your forth post.
    Yes, I want the local union members to get the work, but that doesn't mean I don't want the volunteers to help too if needed. I never ever said that. You are just assuming crap just because I didn't spell everything out.

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