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Thread: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

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    How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Note that this kid wasn't killed in the same drone strike as his father. He was hit by a drone strike elsewhere, and by the time he was killed, his father had already been dead for two weeks. Gibbs nevertheless defends the strike, not by arguing that the kid was a threat, or that killing him was an accident, but by saying that his late father irresponsibly joined al Qaeda terrorists.

    How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic
    I don't know what is worse...that the Obama Administration seems to believe that it can order the extrajudicial killings of American citizens without any trial (or even any good reason), or that no one seems to care about it. It's hard to imagine an executive power that has more potential for abuse than this...and yet astonishingly, there seems to be a widespread bipartisan consensus that secret "kill lists" are A-OK.
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    "The second notable statement concerns the killing of 16-year-old American citizen Abdulrahman al-Awlaki."

    Doesn't sound like an American to me.

    One thing you 3rd world Muslims need to understand is that there is a big difference between an "American Citizen" and an "American."

    One scene that is firmly etched into the minds of all actual Americans is the picture of the pretty young American girl, dressed up in her nicest clothes for work, probably excited about her first job, jumping to her death out of the window on the 24th floor of the World Trade Center because the fire caused by the Muslims was burning her. Americans love their children and American fathers are particularly protective of their young daughters. We spend all of our time worrying about them and trying to protect them from evil.

    You will not be forgiven by Americans for your barbarous behaviour, nor do we care about Al-Alawki's kid. You will never be welcome in America. This is not the place for you to whine.

    Believe it.
    Last edited by Ray410; 11-01-12 at 04:37 AM.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know what is worse...that the Obama Administration seems to believe that it can order the extrajudicial killings of American citizens without any trial (or even any good reason), or that no one seems to care about it. It's hard to imagine an executive power that has more potential for abuse than this...and yet astonishingly, there seems to be a widespread bipartisan consensus that secret "kill lists" are A-OK.
    The US is a fascist Corpocratic tyranny - this is part of the deal

    And now the Corporation has been given the satus of a person in the USA by the US supreme court.

    Although one must state that the US constitution and bill of rights have been suspended by the Patriot Acts (great Orwelian double speak name that, the Patriot act - lol) and the NDAA. So in effect calling a corporation a person doesnt offer constitutional protection, because there is NO constitution - not that the corporate fascist instrument requires protection - it owns everything and controls everyone - especially the state and its military machine

    The American people have a huge job ahead of them

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know what is worse...that the Obama Administration seems to believe that it can order the extrajudicial killings of American citizens without any trial (or even any good reason), or that no one seems to care about it. It's hard to imagine an executive power that has more potential for abuse than this...and yet astonishingly, there seems to be a widespread bipartisan consensus that secret "kill lists" are A-OK.

    I can see the problem both ways. However, if were to rule that no American citizen can be killed by drone strikes, then Al-Qaeda can simply recruit Americans and then hide behind them as shields. That's a dangerous precedent and could cause even more harm to life if they aren't stopped in time.

    And then of course there is the other side where we let the government decides who gets to be killed and under what circumstances THEY choose to do it for. Right now it's Al-Qaeda, what about other militias, movements, etc. in the future that an administration deems "deserves to be killed". That's a strong power to give a governmnet administration.

    Dangerous precedents in both cases IMO.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I can see the problem both ways. However, if were to rule that no American citizen can be killed by drone strikes, then Al-Qaeda can simply recruit Americans and then hide behind them as shields. That's a dangerous precedent and could cause even more harm to life if they aren't stopped in time.

    And then of course there is the other side where we let the government decides who gets to be killed and under what circumstances THEY choose to do it for. Right now it's Al-Qaeda, what about other militias, movements, etc. in the future that an administration deems "deserves to be killed". That's a strong power to give a governmnet administration.

    Dangerous precedents in both cases IMO.

    Holy crap, a rational post. And here I thought it was going to come crashing down after the OP (who certainly has an understandably concerning point).
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I can see the problem both ways. However, if were to rule that no American citizen can be killed by drone strikes, then Al-Qaeda can simply recruit Americans and then hide behind them as shields. That's a dangerous precedent and could cause even more harm to life if they aren't stopped in time.
    I disagree that it's as simple as recruiting Americans. If they could, I'm sure they would. But very few Americans have any interest in their agenda. Al-Qaeda mostly operates in (and recruits from) places with power vacuums or large disaffected Muslim communities.

    However, I agree that we need to have some provision for targeting Americans. This is one area where our legal system has not caught up to the realities of our era. As I've said before I think it should have to be approved by a federal judge before the president is able to act, and should be subject to a three-part test: 1) Has the person committed a felony? 2) Is the person an ongoing threat to the United States? 3) Is the person physically located in a country where he/she cannot be extradited? If the answer to any of those questions is "no," then the president should not be allowed to target them.

    This is why I have a problem with the killing of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. It's hard for me to believe that a 16-year-old kid living in Yemen is an ongoing threat to the United States. His father, sure. But not him. If he's shown to have been intimately involved in planning terrorist attacks, that would be a different matter. So far the Obama Administration has not even deigned to provide a reason for why he was killed, or even suggested there WAS a valid reason.

    And then of course there is the other side where we let the government decides who gets to be killed and under what circumstances THEY choose to do it for. Right now it's Al-Qaeda, what about other militias, movements, etc. in the future that an administration deems "deserves to be killed". That's a strong power to give a governmnet administration.
    Agreed.
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    I have always wondered why it is OK to kill suspected terrorist and everyone around them but if you happen to capture one of these guys US citizen or not they deserve a "fair trial". It is a schizophrenic policy.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Gunslinger Obama gives a very bad name to constitutional law professors.

    And the great Liberal Left finds itself in the uncomfortable position of having to defend lawlessness by the Executive Branch and the other two. It would be hard-pressed to have an open and honest discussion regarding just where in the US Constitution the President is authorized to kill people without due process.

    The Attorney General must offer pure sophistry in claiming that due process does not include judicial process.

    A very sad state for this country.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I have always wondered why it is OK to kill suspected terrorist and everyone around them but if you happen to capture one of these guys US citizen or not they deserve a "fair trial". It is a schizophrenic policy.
    It sounds like what you're saying is that the rule of law is a bad thing.

    You should be happy, because the government and many americans agree with you.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know what is worse...that the Obama Administration seems to believe that it can order the extrajudicial killings of American citizens without any trial (or even any good reason), or that no one seems to care about it. It's hard to imagine an executive power that has more potential for abuse than this...and yet astonishingly, there seems to be a widespread bipartisan consensus that secret "kill lists" are A-OK.
    There's widespread bi-partisan support because Bush had the same thing, and it's likely Romney will too if he gets the chance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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