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Thread: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know what is worse...that the Obama Administration seems to believe that it can order the extrajudicial killings of American citizens without any trial (or even any good reason), or that no one seems to care about it. It's hard to imagine an executive power that has more potential for abuse than this...and yet astonishingly, there seems to be a widespread bipartisan consensus that secret "kill lists" are A-OK.
    I think the fact that the left has largely abandoned the issue, due to mere political interests, is the scariest part about the whole thing

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Forget about Bush. He's simply the last Republican to be President.

    The "kill lists" are bi-partisan, supported by both Democrats and Republicans. Do you think Obama invented them, and do you think that electing Romney will change it?

    dude, you are insane if you're claiming the left wouldn't have gone into rabid fits if we were talking about Bush here.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There's a lot of folks on the left that have criticized Obama over it. Unfortunately the fact is when there is wide spread support for something the Constitution is a paper shield.
    actually polling indicates the majority of liberals and progressive *NOW* support the program

    Liberals, Dems approve of drone strikes on American citizens abroad - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

    Poll finds broad support for Obama’s counterterrorism policies - The Washington Post

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    I hear it's good to be king, evidently it excuses all kinds of behavior. Right now I'd be happy to have a horny guy back in office, at least the payload he's delivering isn't fatal.
    Do you mean the guy who blew up some empty tents and a couple of camels in Afghanistan, and an aspirin factory (along with the night maintenance staff) in Sudan? And used up so many of our conventional warhead missiles that we actually had to start converting nukes back to conventional warheads -- that guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    In the case of domestic drones, whether they be surveillance or attack drones, what do you suppose the penalty would be to a citizen who took one down? We have laws against illegal search (in theory) so the drones would be instruments of illegal activity.
    That's a very interesting question, and one I'd like to see answered.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Can't deal with the reality that this policy has been in effect and will likely stay in effect no matter who wins?

    I'm not blaming Bush, though your outrage over his same actions is notedly absent. I'm pointing out that there's bi-partisan support, meaning both Democrats and Republicans. Last I checked, Bush was the last Republican President. There's not much evidence that this policy pre-dates him, so proving bi-partisan support before him would be difficult.
    Again, the thread is about what is going on with the sitting president. Your second attempt at deflection is noted but is irrelevant. Bush has been out of office for 4 years, if you have a problem with something he did bring it up with the justice department. We are talking about the guy who is in office NOW and is looking to get reelected.

    A couple of things that might do you well to consider for future discussions:

    First, not everybody who disagrees with Obama is a Bush fan. Bush did a lot of things that conservatives did not like. So when someone criticizes Obama, pointing at Bush does not change what the current administration is doing or has done.

    Second, bipartisan does not mean right. I'm pretty sure most bank executives thought stealing the home equity from the entire country was just fine. In fact it was egregiously wrong, and the government going along with it (even excusing them for the most part after the fact) was every bit as wrong. It is clear that the government does not have the interests of the people in mind, now or under the previous administration.

    To be clear (in deference to those of you who live in a linear black and white world) Everybody knows the difference between right and wrong. When people and governments act against that, their party affiliation means NOTHING. We have a system of government that was intended to represent the people. With each successive presidency this system is further abused. It's not that difficult to criticize Obama for what he has done because he built on every previous wrong of government with great zeal. When someone mentions Obama doing something wrong, pointing a finger at Bush WILL NOT CHANGE IT. If you have nothing to say on the subject being discussed STFU, nobody cares about whatever direction you care to deflect the discussion in.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    dude, you are insane if you're claiming the left wouldn't have gone into rabid fits if we were talking about Bush here.
    And they did when Bush was President. Now it's Obama and the right is following suit. If Romney wins on Tuesday, it'll just reverse itself again.

    Electing Obama didn't change it, and electing Romney won't change it either. You're the one who's insane if you think it will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    What eactly is your point? Basically 1/2 of Liberals support drone strikes. The other half doesn't. That's a lot of folks that do not support drone attacks. Are you against the drone attacks or are you just shocked! that party affiliation can causes hypocrisy. Better yet do you think that hypcrisy is only limited to Liberals?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    And they did when Bush was President.
    Yes, that is my point. There would be no bipartisan support for this if we were talking about a republican president. The fact that such an issue was abandoned due to partisan politics is absolutely appalling an inexcusable, regardless of how you view the drone program

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Now it's Obama and the right is following suit. If Romney wins on Tuesday, it'll just reverse itself again.
    while some on the right are making politics out of the issue, it's a policy that seem pretty bipartisan at the moment (majorities support it on both sides of the isle)

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Electing Obama didn't change it, and electing Romney won't change it either. You're the one who's insane if you think it will.
    what are you even talking about? My entire point has been that this issue wouldn't be bipartisan if we were talking about a republican. Again, Bush couldn't even tap these people phone with out creating waves of hysteria, and now your arguing these same people would have been ok if he just assassinated them? Not only is that argument insane, it's laughably insane

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Again, the thread is about what is going on with the sitting president. Your second attempt at deflection is noted but is irrelevant. Bush has been out of office for 4 years, if you have a problem with something he did bring it up with the justice department. We are talking about the guy who is in office NOW and is looking to get reelected.
    The mention of Bush is not a deflection. It's a recognition of fact that it existed even then.

    A couple of things that might do you well to consider for future discussions:

    First, not everybody who disagrees with Obama is a Bush fan. Bush did a lot of things that conservatives did not like. So when someone criticizes Obama, pointing at Bush does not change what the current administration is doing or has done.
    And I frequently disagree with Obama. On this issue included.

    Second, bipartisan does not mean right. I'm pretty sure most bank executives thought stealing the home equity from the entire country was just fine. In fact it was egregiously wrong, and the government going along with it (even excusing them for the most part after the fact) was every bit as wrong. It is clear that the government does not have the interests of the people in mind, now or under the previous administration.
    I never said that bi-partisan meant right. The point was made that support was bi-partisan, and I agreed with that point. The mention of Bush was expanding on that premise. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now, but saying it happened then and was wrong then is not a deflection. That's a fact.

    To be clear (in deference to those of you who live in a linear black and white world) Everybody knows the difference between right and wrong. When people and governments act against that, their party affiliation means NOTHING. We have a system of government that was intended to represent the people. With each successive presidency this system is further abused. It's not that difficult to criticize Obama for what he has done because he built on every previous wrong of government with great zeal. When someone mentions Obama doing something wrong, pointing a finger at Bush WILL NOT CHANGE IT. If you have nothing to say on the subject being discussed STFU, nobody cares about whatever direction you care to deflect the discussion in.
    And pointing the finger at Obama does not change what happened in the past administration, or what will likely happen in the next administration. I don't give Obama a pass for this because it happened in the past. When the point was made that support was bi-partisan, I agreed with that, and expanded on it by saying that it happened under the previous Republican administration, and is likely to occur under a Romney administration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    What eactly is your point?
    lol, my point was pretty clear: that there are alot less people criticizing Obama over these things, and it seems wholly dependent on who's president


    "Are you against the drone attacks or are you just shocked! that party affiliation can causes hypocrisy."

    You seem to be getting upset. But no, what I am shocked about is that people could so easily mitigate their views on extremely important topics due to party politics. What it essentially says is that what constitutes murder is dependent on the presidents politics.

    That's f*cking sick, regardless of your views of the drone program


    "Better yet do you think that hypcrisy is only limited to Liberals?"

    lol

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