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Thread: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

  1. #201
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Gunslinger Obama gives a very bad name to constitutional law professors.

    And the great Liberal Left finds itself in the uncomfortable position of having to defend lawlessness by the Executive Branch and the other two. It would be hard-pressed to have an open and honest discussion regarding just where in the US Constitution the President is authorized to kill people without due process.

    The Attorney General must offer pure sophistry in claiming that due process does not include judicial process.

    A very sad state for this country.
    And I bet you sat by smiling when Bush started torturing prisoners. The radical muslims who hate us have had a huge advantage that drones defeat. Is that why you find it so distressing? Drones have the potential of neutralizing these groups so they can do us no more harm. Is ending Bush's "unending war" too upsetting to you? Would you rather we commit troops to all those countries so they can act as targets for the terrorists?

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    My bad. You're right. Obviously you did read Wiggen's post. I get it now. Lack of comprehension is actually the issue. Duly noted. Thank you.
    Isn't it so much easier to snipe rather than explain whatever bee you've got in your bonnet? No wonder you've chosen to do it instead.
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    The US Constitution, Amendment V and Amendment VIII. The document does not give the government the power to execute citizens or persons without due process.

    The Fifth specifies the due process requirement.
    Is the US government violating the constitution when a miscoordinated airstrike accidentally kills a US soldier or an embedded journalist? Or, rather, are you truly unable to see a meaningful distinction between such a death and, say, the President ordering a political opponent to be hanged?

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    In the previous post, I forgot to mention Amendment VI.

    Your post here suggests that you are not quite aware of several things. The use of the word "person" in various parts of the Constitution, including those parts relevant to this discussion.

    You also seem to suggest that you deny that the government is killing persons, including US citizens, without any sort of due process. In case you don't know it, the US government employs armed drones in different parts of the globe, and with those drones it kills all manner of innocent people.
    All manner of people? Oh noes!

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by hawke812 View Post
    I see you like to cherry pick certain information and take my posts out of context to better serve your agenda
    Yes. I pick the bits that are wrong and explain to why they are wrong. That's how this works.


    Quote Originally Posted by hawke812 View Post
    Of course it sounds ridiculous when you give an extreme example and take it out of context. Anything would
    I didn't take anything out of context. You said the government could "kill anyone" they wanted. Apparently, you didn't say what you meant because now you're acknowledging how ridiculous such a concept is. So, what did you mean when you said the government could "kill anyone" if you didn't mean "kill anyone"?


    Quote Originally Posted by hawke812 View Post
    Yes, the government has free reign to label anyone as a terrorist and kill them with no oversight right now. Even US citizens. Are you going to deny that?
    Look, you just said it again - the government can label ANYONE they want and KILL them.

    Yes I'm going to deny that. Absolutely. Obama could not label Romney as a terrorist and kill him. His entire own party would turn on him. Biden would wrestle him to the ground in the oval office until the authorities got there if Obama did something as daft as that.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Yes. I pick the bits that are wrong and explain to why they are wrong. That's how this works.




    I didn't take anything out of context. You said the government could "kill anyone" they wanted. Apparently, you didn't say what you meant because now you're acknowledging how ridiculous such a concept is. So, what did you mean when you said the government could "kill anyone" if you didn't mean "kill anyone"?




    Look, you just said it again - the government can label ANYONE they want and KILL them.

    Yes I'm going to deny that. Absolutely. Obama could not label Romney as a terrorist and kill him. His entire own party would turn on him. Biden would wrestle him to the ground in the oval office until the authorities got there if Obama did something as daft as that.
    Actually that isn't true (at least, for the average American).

    Under the Patriot Act the definition of a terrorist is extremely vague.

    ("The definition of domestic terrorism is broad enough to encompass the activities of several prominent activist campaigns and organizations. Greenpeace, Operation Rescue, Vieques Island and WTO protesters and the Environmental Liberation Front have all recently engaged in activities that could subject them to being investigated as engaging in domestic terrorism." How the USA PATRIOT Act redefines "Domestic Terrorism" | American Civil Liberties Union)

    [Please note how the DOJ is saying that "Peaceful groups that dissent from government policy without breaking laws cannot be targeted." However, this is false.

    FBI Raids Target U.S. Activists | The Stream - Al Jazeera English

    http://www.afn.org/~iguana/archives/2001_11/20011116.html ]

    Obama could label someone a terrorist, kill them with a drone, and then hide behind national security. ("When it comes to countering terrorism, President Obama has hidden behind national security imperatives to shield administration policy in secrecy and pursue programs such as expanded drone use and thwarted accountability." President Obama: Recapture the Human Rights High Ground)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    So is this. They began it on 9/11 and we're continuing it. Here's some advice for Americans. If you don't want to be blown to bits by a Predator, A) don't go to countries that serve as terrorist havens, and B) don't hang out with terrorists. It's really rather simple.
    You forgot to mention "don't hang out with anybody NOT on the approved list" and things like that. Pure authoritarianism.

    They began it? Who is they?

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    That's it? We have a list of Al Qaeda terrorists and some of them are Americans - and we intend to kill them? Wow. Color me shocked that we actually want to eliminate these bastards before they decide to hijack an airplane and fly it into a high rise building. Dear me!

    I did like the part about 'eviscerating' Al Qaeda, however.
    Are you familiar with the relationships between CIA and AQ back during the days of the Russian occupation of Afghanistan?

    Did you read or see Charlie Wilson's War?

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    And I bet you sat by smiling when Bush started torturing prisoners. The radical muslims who hate us have had a huge advantage that drones defeat. Is that why you find it so distressing? Drones have the potential of neutralizing these groups so they can do us no more harm. Is ending Bush's "unending war" too upsetting to you? Would you rather we commit troops to all those countries so they can act as targets for the terrorists?
    You would lose your juvenile bet above.

    I find it distressing sir, because once upon a time I took an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution from enemies domestic and foreign.

    Those who do not follow the document are its enemies.

    Drones have all sorts of potential, but the REALITY is that they are being used to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. That you support those crimes, or have deluded yourself into thinking that they are not crimes, speaks volumes. It is a personal problem for you.

    The Global War On Terror is a fraud of epic proportions, and it never ceases to amaze how many people buy into it, lock, stock & barrel.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Is the US government violating the constitution when a miscoordinated airstrike accidentally kills a US soldier or an embedded journalist? Or, rather, are you truly unable to see a meaningful distinction between such a death and, say, the President ordering a political opponent to be hanged?
    The US government violates the Constitution in so many ways it is almost impossible to list them all.

    You offer some rather superficial hypotheticals, and I'll not waste my time with them.

    By invading both Afghanistan and Iraq under false pretenses, the government has violated both the Constitution and international law by committing military aggression.

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