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Thread: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

  1. #91
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    "..................... Acts of Congress are “presumptively constitutional,” Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. v. FCC, 507 U.S. 1301, 1301 (1993), and the Supreme Com1 has stressed that the presumption of constitutionality accorded to Acts of Congress is “strong.” United States v. Five Gambling Devices Labeled in Part .. Mills,” and Bearing Serial Nos. 593-221,346 U.S . 441 , 449 (1953); see, e.g., Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1, 28 (2005) (noting that the “congressional judgment” at issue was “entitled to a strong presumption of validity”). The Supreme Court has explained: “This is not a mere polite gesture. It is a deference due to deliberate judgment by constitutional majorities of the two Houses of Congress that an Act is within their delegated power or is necessary and proper to execution of that power.” Five Gambling Devices Labeled in Part .. Mills,” and Bearing Serial Nos. 593-22i, 346 U.S. at 449.

    In light of the presumption of constitutionality, it falls to the party seeking to overturn a federal law to show that it is clearly unconstitutional. See, e.g., Salazar v. Buono, 130 S. Ct. 1803, 1820 (20 1 0) (“Respect for a coordinate branch of Govenm1ent forbids striking down an Act of Congress except upon a clear showing of unconstitutionality.”); Beach Communications, Inc. , 508 U.S. at314-15.

    That's pretty clear, man. Sorry.
    You obviously missed the important part of the letter you quoted:

    Read Attorney General Holder's Letter to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals Here - Eric Holder - Fox Nation

    1. The power of the courts to review the constitutionality of legislation is beyond
    dispute.
    See generally, e.g. , Free Ente1prise Fund v. Public Co. Accounting Oversight Bd. , 130
    S. Ct. 3138 (20 10); FCC v. Beach Communications, Inc., 508 U.S. 307 (1993). The Supreme
    Court resolved this question in Marbwy v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 177-78 ( 1803). In that case,
    Case: 11-40631 Document: 00511812922 Page: 1 Date Filed: 04/05/2012
    the Court held that " [i]t is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say
    what the law is.”
    Marbury, 1 Cranch at 177.

    Read more: Read Attorney General Holder's Letter to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals Here - Eric Holder - Fox Nation
    Maybe you should read letters a little more carefully and find out what the definition of "presumptively" is. Again, constitutionality is NOT decided by Congress, it's decided by SCOTUS.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You obviously missed the important part of the letter you quoted:

    Read Attorney General Holder's Letter to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals Here - Eric Holder - Fox Nation
    Maybe you should read letters a little more carefully and find out what the definition of "presumptively" is. Again, constitutionality is NOT decided by Congress, it's decided by SCOTUS.

    Do you actually not understand the Presumption of Constitutionality? It sounds like you do not.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Do you actually not understand the Presumption of Constitutionality? It sounds like you do not.
    I definitely do far more than you understand delegation of powers.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I definitely do far more than you understand delegation of powers.
    OK, then state in simple terms what the Presumption of Constitutionality means with regards to laws passed by Congress. It really doesn't sound like you understand.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    Congress authorized the use of force against terrorists back in 2001 (AUMF). So whether or not anyone thinks it's morally right or wrong to target members of terrorist organizations behind the attacks on US citizens it is in line with constitutional law.
    This and subsequent posts on this thread indicate that you do not have much knowledge of the US Constitution and the principles and philosophies upon which it was founded. Hatuey tried to explain, but you resist.

    And in this post, you suggest that you are content to have the federal government determine your moral code. You seem fine with the federal government telling you what is right and what is wrong.

    Sad state of affairs, and very much what Franklin was talking about--" a Republic madam, IF you can keep it."

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    No, not the end of the story.

    "..................... Acts of Congress are “presumptively constitutional,” Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. v. FCC, 507 U.S. 1301, 1301 (1993), and the Supreme Com1 has stressed that the presumption of constitutionality accorded to Acts of Congress is “strong.” United States v. Five Gambling Devices Labeled in Part .. Mills,” and Bearing Serial Nos. 593-221,346 U.S . 441 , 449 (1953); see, e.g., Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1, 28 (2005) (noting that the “congressional judgment” at issue was “entitled to a strong presumption of validity”). The Supreme Court has explained: “This is not a mere polite gesture. It is a deference due to deliberate judgment by constitutional majorities of the two Houses of Congress that an Act is within their delegated power or is necessary and proper to execution of that power.” Five Gambling Devices Labeled in Part .. Mills,” and Bearing Serial Nos. 593-22i, 346 U.S. at 449.

    In light of the presumption of constitutionality, it falls to the party seeking to overturn a federal law to show that it is clearly unconstitutional. See, e.g., Salazar v. Buono, 130 S. Ct. 1803, 1820 (20 1 0) (“Respect for a coordinate branch of Govenm1ent forbids striking down an Act of Congress except upon a clear showing of unconstitutionality.”); Beach Communications, Inc. , 508 U.S. at314-15.



    Congress is enabled by the Constitution to make laws. These laws are presumed to be Constitutional until challenged and the court rules otherwise. You can reasonably believe that this is a strong presumption and the court is not eager to find congressional law unconstitutional. Example: Chief Justice Roberts turned himself inside out to find that Obamacare was constitutional.
    You are correct in your statement about presumption of constitutionality, but you're missing the larger point.

    That presumption can easily be nothing but sophistry, and is not much more than a poor effort to streamline government, which happens to be a good goal. But in the end, it presumes that Congress does not err, rather the way Catholics believe that the Pope does not err.

    It is a fallacy to think that Congress does not err. Anybody who pays attention just a little bit knows that Congress errs more often than not. Bismark compared the legislative process to making sausage, and he was not far off.

    The AUMF is pure sophistry. The President is ALREADY the C-in-C, and can do as he pleases with the military. FDR even talked about it. "I cannot declare war, but I can wage war."

    The GWOT is a fraud of epic proportions, promoted by all 3 branches of the federal government.

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    "The second notable statement concerns the killing of 16-year-old American citizen Abdulrahman al-Awlaki."

    Doesn't sound like an American to me.

    One thing you 3rd world Muslims need to understand is that there is a big difference between an "American Citizen" and an "American."

    One scene that is firmly etched into the minds of all actual Americans is the picture of the pretty young American girl, dressed up in her nicest clothes for work, probably excited about her first job, jumping to her death out of the window on the 24th floor of the World Trade Center because the fire caused by the Muslims was burning her. Americans love their children and American fathers are particularly protective of their young daughters. We spend all of our time worrying about them and trying to protect them from evil.

    You will not be forgiven by Americans for your barbarous behaviour, nor do we care about Al-Alawki's kid. You will never be welcome in America. This is not the place for you to whine.

    Believe it.
    This thread is about the abuse of executive powers. But you can't hold back your hatred for an entire peoples from the action of a few

    His father was born in the USA. He was born in the USA. He is an American. But he does not "sound like an American"? So for him to "sound like an American", he needs to have one of the following names:

    Jake
    Connor
    Tanner
    Wyatt
    Cody
    Dustin
    Luke
    Jack
    Scott
    Logan
    Cole
    Lucas
    Bradley
    Jacob
    Garrett
    Dylan
    Maxwell
    Hunter
    Brett
    Colin

    See, this is the type of narrow-mindedness that makes America look so bad

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by hawke812 View Post
    See, this is the type of narrow-mindedness that makes America look so bad
    Look bad to whom?

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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Look bad to whom?
    To other Americans, and to the rest of the world.

    It is like watching that Honey Boo Boo show, or even the many other "reality shows". Makes all of us Americans look bad

  10. #100
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    Re: How Team Obama Justifies the Killing of a 16-Year-Old American Citizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    "The second notable statement concerns the killing of 16-year-old American citizen Abdulrahman al-Awlaki."

    Doesn't sound like an American to me.

    One thing you 3rd world Muslims need to understand is that there is a big difference between an "American Citizen" and an "American."

    One scene that is firmly etched into the minds of all actual Americans is the picture of the pretty young American girl, dressed up in her nicest clothes for work, probably excited about her first job, jumping to her death out of the window on the 24th floor of the World Trade Center because the fire caused by the Muslims was burning her. Americans love their children and American fathers are particularly protective of their young daughters. We spend all of our time worrying about them and trying to protect them from evil.

    You will not be forgiven by Americans for your barbarous behaviour, nor do we care about Al-Alawki's kid. You will never be welcome in America. This is not the place for you to whine.

    Believe it.
    What a racist piece of crap post. Not to mention a very ignorant one.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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