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Native American Catholic Saint???

Guy Incognito said:
If you honestly belief religion is a choice, why don't you try choosing to believe in Christianity, and let me know how it works out for you.
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Religious belief isn't learned? It's not taught? It's something you're either born with or you're not? It's what....genetic?
 
Dragonfly said:
Religious belief isn't learned? It's not taught? It's something you're either born with or you're not? It's what....genetic?
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Beliefs can be taught; whether they're internalized as one's own beliefs, however, is a choice.

And perhaps there is a genetic component--call it a "divine spark," if you will.
 
Dragonfly said:
Religious belief isn't learned? It's not taught? It's something you're either born with or you're not? It's what....genetic?
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:lol: You sound like those people who think homosexual preference is a choice just because we haven't found the "gay gene."
Such narrow minded arguments are amusing but kind of sad.
 
nota bene said:
Beliefs can be taught; whether they're internalized as one's own beliefs, however, is a choice.

And perhaps there is a genetic component--call it a "divine spark," if you will.
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Ahh, the chosen people argument.

So entrance into heaven is now decided by your genes?
 
spanky said:
Ahh, the chosen people argument.

So entrance into heaven is now decided by your genes?
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Don't put words in my mouth, Spanky. I was actually thinking about Pope's "Essay on Man," Epistle I and what he said about the soul expatiating far away from home.

Sigh, I should have known better...there's always an opportunistic philistine lurking around and waiting for an "Aha!" moment to pounce. Perhaps you need to drink a little more deeply of the Pierian Spring.
 
celticwar17 said:
I don't know, Catholics pretty much invented science... and it is a religion that is open to criticism among it's own members.
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Great observation! Gregor Mendel is considered the father of genetics, he was an Augustinian monk. Many of the Renaissance scholars were in fact Catholic, we still base many of the fundamentals of modern science on their work.
Catholicism is very much a collaboration of philosophic and scientific thought... though some members of it throughout history may lead you to believe it is not, but they were corrupted by power like any other human being.
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Like anything else, there are people who divert from the main thought.
 
nota bene said:
Don't put words in my mouth, Spanky. I was actually thinking about Pope's "Essay on Man," Epistle I and what he said about the soul expatiating far away from home.

Sigh, I should have known better...there's always an opportunistic philistine lurking around and waiting for an "Aha!" moment to pounce. Perhaps you need to drink a little more deeply of the Pierian Spring.
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You never heard the joke "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me then a frontal lobotomy"?

Actually, I'm your worst enemy. I'm not a philistine, an atheist or a damn pagan, I'm a heretic in the grand tradition of Galileo. I come from a devout Irish Catholic family, went to Catholic school, altar boy, confirmation, the whole 9 yards. But at one point I began to question my faith and did some research and soul searching and came to the conclusion it was pretty much all BS. There may be a God but it isn't the caricature Judaism, Christian OR Islam has made their self serving God out to be.

I left the plantation and it was the most liberating epiphany of my life.
 
digsbe said:
I don't care if they make hin a saint. What I do find absurd and idolatrous is the idea that dead Catholics can have miracles atributed to them.
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exactly what I was thinking. That would be termed necromancy, which is blasphemy according to the Bible anyway. You know those kooky Catholics and Pope being the word of God on earth. What can ya do?
 
Blackdog said:
exactly what I was thinking. That would be termed necromancy, which is blasphemy according to the Bible anyway. You know those kooky Catholics and Pope being the word of God on earth. What can ya do?
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Necromancy is the raising of the dead, saints are considered higher order spirits who intervene in the finite world to do good(short version of it).
 
Fiddytree said:
The presumption most will have is that there is some scientific explanation, whether ignored by the institution or by a lack of scientific knowledge or information about that specific event.
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You should really read some Hume-ian logic on miracles. It's quite ... easy.
 
nota bene said:
And perhaps there is a genetic component--call it a "divine spark," if you will.
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Please direct me to this journal article. I'd be interested in reading the position of the component.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Please direct me to this journal article. I'd be interested in reading the position of the component.
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You may want to read her post, to wit, the word "perhaps.". For somebody so rude you really don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
You should really read some Hume-ian logic on miracles. It's quite ... easy.
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You prove yourself to be a philosophical dilettante since you do not know it is spelled "Humean."
 
Guy Incognito said:
You may want to read her post, to wit, the word "perhaps.". For somebody so rude you really don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about.
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Well there had to be some motivation for the statement. If you wanna invoke science, then invoke science. Don't invoke science and say "well I don't have the science."
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Too many times I've seen someone say Humean = Human.
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Yeah, ok that's plausible enough. So would you care to elaborate on how you think Hume applies here specifically?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Yeah, ok that's plausible enough. So would you care to elaborate on how you think Hume applies here specifically?
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The probability of miracles is basically zero and it's more likely that a person has a misapprehension than an actual suspension of natural laws (in their favor, too.)
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Well there had to be some motivation for the statement. If you wanna invoke science, then invoke science. Don't invoke science and say "well I don't have the science."
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The fact, of course, is that you aren't interested at all in what I wrote, only in trying to seize an opportunity. All you had to do was go to Google and type in "divine spark."
 
nota bene said:
The fact, of course, is that you aren't interested at all in what I wrote, only in trying to seize an opportunity. All you had to do was go to Google and type in "divine spark."
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You made the claim. Provide your genetic evidence.
 
Dragonfly said:
The catholic church, the catholic empire, and the catholic corporation deserve every bit of scorn they get, and they deserve very little sympathy or empathy from it as well.
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Yeah, never mind all the good it's done. It's only the bad things that matter, like every other organization.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Necromancy is the raising of the dead, saints are considered higher order spirits who intervene in the finite world to do good(short version of it).
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Can't make it any clearer than this...

Isaiah 8:19 And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

Do I really need to add anything else?
 
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Blackdog said:
Can't make it any clearer than this...

Isaiah 8:19 And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

Do I really need to add anything else?
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I disagree my man. Saints are blessed, there's a very intricate process behind it, though I will grant that non sanctioned spiritual endeavors are verboten.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I disagree my man. Saints are blessed, there's a very intricate process behind it, though I will grant that non sanctioned spiritual endeavors are verboten.
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I am not downing my Catholic brothers and sisters, I am no better a sinner, lol. I just disagree with non-biblical church laws as I don't agree the Pope is God's word on earth. It is just a mans law vs Gods law thing for me. I mean dead is dead, saint or not. Nothing in the Bible as far as I have read or studied says the dead have arisen yet. But hey, I could be wrong.

So no biggie.
 
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