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The bullies win again[W710; 739]

Very nice, Fisher. Outlawing being mean isn't going to work and isn't practical, so let's all calm down and have some dip.
 
Fisher said:
Perhaps start with an existing statute and just make it a felony: For instance, here is Florida's

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

(d) “Cyberstalk” means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.
(2) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(3) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat to that person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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This is a valuable tool, but it would not have allowed a DA to prosecute Lori Drew.
 
Pinkie said:
This is a valuable tool, but it would not have allowed a DA to prosecute Lori Drew.
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Why not? If that had been the law then and where that happened perhaps they wouldn't have had to go to the federal unauthorized access by violating the Myspace terms of service contrived argument. Lori Drew and others sent her harassing messages via the internet. That is what the FL statute appears to address. Edit it the way you think it should be edited and start sending it around to people in your state if you do not have one of your own already on the books. Encourage it to be a felony so people can be more easily extradited into your jurisdiction. Take ownership of this issue and act to change the laws if that is your goal.
 
Fisher said:
Why not? If that had been the law then and where that happened perhaps they wouldn't have had to go to the federal unauthorized access by violating the Myspace terms of service contrived argument. Lori Drew and others sent her harassing messages via the internet. That is what the FL statute appears to address. Edit it the way you think it should be edited and start sending it around to people in your state if you do not have one of your own already on the books. Encourage it to be a felony so people can be more easily extradited into your jurisdiction. Take ownership of this issue and act to change the laws if that is your goal.
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Because Drew never expressly threatened the child, as in, she did not say "I will be waiting outside school today to beat on you", and because until the very end, Drew's attention to the child was not unwelcome.

Some have toyed with the idea of making it a crime for an adult to contact an (apparent) child on the net unless they know that child IRL. Of course, even a law like this would not have criminalized Drew's conduct, as she did, in fact, know the child.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Because it's just normal? Kids are gonna pick on kids. No one likes bullying, but how are you gonna stop it? There's already anti-stalking laws in place, ya know...

The girl is to blame for her death. I'm sorry, but she is. She did it.

Ignore away if that bothers you.
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I don't think you truly understand the true nature of "bullying" my friend. In this case, the 12-yr-old girl was cyberstalked by a 30 yr-old male predator who hacked her e-mail and social networking accounts, circulated nude pics of her on the web and blackmailed her for THREE years. We're also talking about a series of peers who told her repeatedly that she was whore and needed to kill herself. She was confronted at school by 15 others from a previous school who beat her to the ground and video taped it........and in your twisted world this qualifies as "kids picking on other kids?" You haven't got a clue......I sincerely hope that you never produce offspring. :shrug:
 
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Well...okay? I could be rude and hope any kids with your veiwpoint are bullied until they're dead, but what would that prove?

The point is what happened to this girl wasn't "bullying". Many crimes were perpetuated upon her and then she decided to kill herself. Nothing there has anything to do with "bullying".
 
Pinkie said:
You could keep your computer in the living room and observe your child using it -- some cases like this have occurred -- and still lose that child to bullicide, Pirate.

We criminalize all sorts of speech: soliciting a bribe, defrauding by a confidence game, espionage, conspiracy to murder, etc. The mere fact that we want to criminalize speech isn't the problem; it's making sure we do this is in the least restrictive way possible.

BUT:

Megan Meier died almost this date SIX YEARS AGO. For SEVENTY TWO months, some of the best and brightest have been trying to craft a law that won't step on any toes needlessly. In that time, HUNDREDS of children have been bullied to death on the net.

You don't like this version of the bill? Fine by me -- but I still need you to be actively engaged in looking for the solution, k?
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There is no such thing as bullicide, Pinkie. I dont who made that "term" up but fact is the correct term is suicide. And no matter who people want to blame, the bottom line after all the crap is cleared away, this young woman took her own life, by her own hand. She is completely responsible for that act, whether she really understood or not, no matter all of the extenuating circumstance. The blame for her death lies squarely on her shoulders.

Secondly I am not about budge on my position on speach. We already have too many laws as is. The law proposed is ridiculusly bad law. Further there are already laws on the books for fraud and other crimes that would applicable. Part of free speach is having to deal with evil speach with evil intent toward our children. We cannot protect them from everything. There is no way. And a vast majority of children can quite frankly deal with the same sitution better than this young girl did. I wish I didnt have to say that but Ive raised children and have a couple that arent mine running about the house now. They are a hell of alot tougher than everyone gives them credit for.

The fact remains on these crimes listed, action must accompany them before they can be considered crime. For instance consperiacy to murder requires some action on the part of the perpatrator to act on the murder, like researching poisoning methods, to bring said charge, let alone get conviction.

Hundreds of children dieing, from being bullied on the internet??? I want facts, reports, something. There are over 300 million people in the US. And we need to make a law for how many over six years? More die of murder and attempeted murder in six months, there already laws on the books against that.
 
What? Bullicide? Jesus Christ.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I refuse to believe you are really that daft. I'm sorry, but it's obvious you and others are saying this crap to piss people off and nothing more. Have fun with that.
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Dr_Patrick said:
I agree with you, but I honestly don't even think they actually believe their own nonsense. They are simply bored and have absolutely nothing better to do with their time than to bait people into nonsensical arguments.
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And you are both wrong.
I am saying it because it is true and factual.
She is the only person responsible for her suicide. No one else.


FluffyNinja said:
I don't think you truly understand the true nature of "bullying" my friend. In this case, the 12-yr-old girl was cyberstalked by a 30 yr-old male predator who hacked her e-mail and social networking accounts, and blackmailed her for THREE years. We're also talking about a series of peers who told her repeatedly that she was whore and needed to kill herself. She was confronted at school by 15 others from a previous school who beat her to the ground and video taped it........and in your twisted world this qualifies as "kids picking on other kids?" You haven't got a clue......I sincerely hope that you never produce offspring. :shrug:
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Yes we already know that girl was unstable, and that instability lead to her inability to cope and her making the decision to commit suicide.

There is a real disconnect here with you folks.
You all want to hold a person responsible who is not.
The harasser is not responsible for her decision or her instability. Nor should he ever be held so.

Hell his actions are far removed in time from her actions of taking her own life that it is obvious that she did not take her life because of him.
And yet you want him held responsible for her death.
That is the "someone else is to blame" mentality that is so prevalent in today's society. It is sickening.


The funny thing here is you all want to criticize others because they say she is responsible for her own actions (which she is), yet had she taken the life of her previous harasser, or previous assaulter, you would be more than willing to hold her responsible for that.
The responsibility doesn't change just because the life she chose to take was her own, and not someone else's.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Hundreds of children dieing, from being bullied on the internet??? I want facts, reports, something. There are over 300 million people in the US. And we need to make a law for how many over six years? More die of murder and attempeted murder in six months, there already laws on the books against that.
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The statistics on bullying and suicide are alarming:

•Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people, resulting in about 4,400 deaths per year, according to the CDC. For every suicide among young people, there are at least 100 suicide attempts. Over 14 percent of high school students have considered suicide, and almost 7 percent have attempted it.
•Bully victims are between 2 to 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims, according to studies by Yale University
•A study in Britain found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying
•10 to 14 year old girls may be at even higher risk for suicide, according to the study above
•According to statistics reported by ABC News, nearly 30 percent of students are either bullies or victims of bullying, and 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying


Sources:
WebMD, Depression Guide, "Recognizing the Warning Signs of Suicide" [online]
Nemours, KidsHealth, "Helping Kids Deal with Bullies" [online]
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Suicide Prevention, "Youth Suicide" [online]
Yale University, Office of Public Affairs, "Bullying-Suicide Link Explored in New Study by Researchers at Yale" [online]
Matt Dickinson, The Independent, "Research finds bullying link to child suicides" [online]
Michael Inbar, MSNBC Today, "‘Sexting’ bullying cited in teen’s suicide" [online]
Susan Donaldson James, ABC News, Health, "Teen Commits Suicide Due to Bullying: Parents Sue School for Son's Death" [online]
Erik Eckholm and Katie Zezima, The New York Times, "6 Teenagers Are Charged After Classmate’s Suicide" [online]
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..........
 
Excon said:
And yet you want him held responsible for her death.
That is the "someone else is to blame" mentality that is so prevalent in today's society. It is sickening.
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This is rich coming from you after your adamant defense of cyberbullies and pedophiles in this thread. :roll:
 
Pinkie said:
Because Drew never expressly threatened the child, as in, she did not say "I will be waiting outside school today to beat on you", and because until the very end, Drew's attention to the child was not unwelcome.

Some have toyed with the idea of making it a crime for an adult to contact an (apparent) child on the net unless they know that child IRL. Of course, even a law like this would not have criminalized Drew's conduct, as she did, in fact, know the child.
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Look at the statute again. It does not require there to be a threat. The threat is what steps it up to a felony in FL. Harassment is enough under the FL statute to get the Class 1 misdemeanor conviction. I personally think sending a barrage of emails saying "The world would be better without you" as was reportedly done would be sufficient. While I have not looked at the FL legislative history, my guess would be that the law was created in direct response to that case. Take the misdemeanor part and slap a felony on it too, and you have the tool I think you are looking for. From there it is the job of the parent or the victim to bring in the authorities. If the police do not take it seriously, call the chief, call the prosecutor, call the mayor. Make it a federal statute. Making it a felony really steps up the ability to extradite people.
 
Perhaps this one will do

123tf.jpg
 
Jerry said:
This one illustrates the real problem exactly:

View attachment 67136178
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The problem is quite evident......your lack of compassion for a mere child who killed herself needlessly. :shrug:

So, what you're saying is the real motivation for the coldheartedness toward this little girl is nothing more than jealousy that someone else is getting attention? Hmmm......okay.....I see.
 
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Well now you have the reason why I say to many, they care about pro-life but not much after that...
Explains why they hate welfare when they don't know all the reason people are on it and why some people treat the homeless as worthless when they are fellow human beings.
 
FluffyNinja said:
This is rich coming from you after your adamant defense of cyberbullies and pedophiles in this thread. :roll:
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Why in the world do you find it necessary to lie?
I have never defended his actions of harassment.
I have never defended the others girl's assault on Amanda.
Matter of fact I believe I said they are responsible for their actions of such.
So why do you continue to lie?


Secondly.
Anonymous wasn't even sure they singled out the right person, yet you want to accept as fact that it was (clearly showing your bias), and refer to a pedophile. Actions which no one has ever defended in this topic.
It is obvious that your argument is so weak that you have resorted to lying. Why?

Why do you lie?
 
I can't help but think and wonder how far you guys take the blame game in a suicide......

Patrick is right in that the responsibility for committing suicide rests squarely on the individual who took their own life.

I mean, are you going to blame the ex-boyfriend who broke up with a girl, and the girl got all depressed and killed herself because he wouldn't get back together with her too?


The blame game is foolish.
 
FluffyNinja said:
You know how to use Google Image....I'm thoroughly impressed.
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You would be surprised how many people on this site do not know how to use Google.

Anyone who ever asked for a word to be defined, for example, doesn't know how to use Google.

Forget compassion, let's start with some basic intelligence.
 
Aimee30 said:
Well now you have the reason why I say to many, they care about pro-life but not much after that...
Explains why they hate welfare when they don't know all the reason people are on it and why some people treat the homeless as worthless when they are fellow human beings.
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WTF does that have to do with some psycho hanging herself?
 
Aimee30 said:
Well now you have the reason why I say to many, they care about pro-life but not much after that...
Explains why they hate welfare when they don't know all the reason people are on it and why some people treat the homeless as worthless when they are fellow human beings.
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Makes you wonder why all the pro-choice people are sad at this suicide. They should be happy Amanda Todd made a *choice* for herself. They should celebrate her suicide. If anything, pro-choice should be in as good of a mood as I am. I guess pro-choice isn't actually pro-choice, just pro-abortion.
 
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