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The bullies win again[W710; 739]

OldWorldOrder said:
Is she 12 or 16? I can't keep up with the strawmen.

I do admonish you guys not to bully me as we discuss this, though. Don't all gang up on me with your detrimental opinions. That would crush me.
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I believe she was 12 when the bullying began. Not 100% sure, though.

Also, it's cute that you decide to take a controversial position and then pull this jerk crap when you get criticism for it. Did you run out of arguments to back up your ridiculous position?
 
Ummm...okay? I guess that's a good way to never hear dissenting opinions. Good job?
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I believe she was 12 when the bullying began. Not 100% sure, though.

Also, it's cute that you decide to take a controversial position and then pull this jerk crap when you get criticism for it. Did you run out of arguments to back up your ridiculous position?
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There's nothing cute about it. I'm pointing out how your own argument is flawed by using it back at you. No one likes bullying. But the person who kills themselves is the one to blame for it. No one else.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
There's nothing cute about it. I'm pointing out how your own argument is flawed by using it back at you. No one likes bullying. But the person who kills themselves is the one to blame for it. No one else.
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I refuse to believe you are really that daft. I'm sorry, but it's obvious you and others are saying this crap to piss people off and nothing more. Have fun with that.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Is she 12 or 16? I can't keep up with the strawmen.

I do admonish you guys not to bully me as we discuss this, though. Don't all gang up on me with your detrimental opinions. That would crush me.
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Weak, dude. That being said by a 23 year vet myself.

She was 12 when this thing kicked off, and 16 when she killed herself. Regardless, I know you've seen a range of defense mechanisms in people you've served with. Some handle things better than others. I also know that we don't allow "bullyiing" in the military. If we don't allow it there, why is it ok that it happens in middle school?
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I refuse to believe you are really that daft. I'm sorry, but it's obvious you and others are saying this crap to piss people off and nothing more. Have fun with that.
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Stop bullying me

(See, I'm not really complaining about bullying, because I don't care, but I'm pointing out to you what the problem in your argumentation is)
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Did you watch the video and see what those people did to her? They didn't just "say" things that she didn't like. Way to downplay it, though. Also, kudos for holding a 16 year old girl to the same standards as an adult. Teenagers aren't fully developed yet. That, and not everyone has the same level of mental stability. Some people are fragile. **** them, though, right? They need to ****ing grow a pair and man up. They need to be tough like you. :roll:
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Good points, but you are wasting your time.

People like NewWorldOrder and Excon and some others on here think they have seen it all when clearly they have not a clue. They simply do not have the life experiences and/or the intellectual/emotional capacity to understand what this teenaged girl probably felt when she took her life.

To you and I it seems obvious what she was probably going through.

But to them?

It is TOTALLY over their heads.

They only see black and white...they (apparently) cannot see the grey.


I am of course assuming they are/were not bullies themselves and are not just trying to put the consequences of their actions in a less negative light.
 
mac said:
Weak, dude. That being said by a 23 year vet myself.

She was 12 when this thing kicked off, and 16 when she killed herself. Regardless, I know you've seen a range of defense mechanisms in people you've served with. Some handle things better than others. I also know that we don't allow "bullyiing" in the military. If we don't allow it there, why is it ok that it happens in middle school?
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Because it's just normal? Kids are gonna pick on kids. No one likes bullying, but how are you gonna stop it? There's already anti-stalking laws in place, ya know...

The girl is to blame for her death. I'm sorry, but she is. She did it.

Ignore away if that bothers you.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Stop bullying me

(See, I'm not really complaining about bullying, because I don't care, but I'm pointing out to you what the problem in your argumentation is)
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So much for that job as a PTSD counsellor.


"Rub some dirt in it, Corporal!"
 
Pinkie said:
You are certainly not alone in your concern, Pirate. I don't want crappy laws, either. I disagree that it is hopeless that we can criminalize only the behavior we abhore and leave all other speech legal, but I do not deny that if it can be done, it'll be a genius-level accomplishment.
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Well, there is one option. First instead of using the word "Bullying" which is so polarizing and subjective, find a better term/phrase to describe it and set forth the types of specific acts which would constitute it, and then plea to the Court when the case comes up that they apply the porn "we know it when we see it" test. It isn't like most disorderly conduct/breach of the peace statutes that most every place in America have are particularly well-defined.
 
DA60 said:
Good points, but you are wasting your time.

People like NewWorldOrder and Excon and some others on here think they have seen it all when clearly they have not a clue. They simply do not have the life experiences and/or the intellectual/emotional capacity to understand what this teenaged girl probably felt when she took her life.

To you and I it seems obvious what she was probably going through.

But to them?

It is TOTALLY over their heads.

They only see black and white...they (apparently) cannot see the grey.


I am of course assuming they are/were not bullies themselves and are not just trying to put the consequences of their actions in a less negative light.
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I agree with you, but I honestly don't even think they actually believe their own nonsense. They are simply bored and have absolutely nothing better to do with their time than to bait people into nonsensical arguments.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Because it's just normal? Kids are gonna pick on kids. No one likes bullying, but how are you gonna stop it? There's already anti-stalking laws in place, ya know...

The girl is to blame for her death. I'm sorry, but she is. She did it.

Ignore away if that bothers you.
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There's no limit to "normal bullying" in your mind? When does it cross the line into assault?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Because it's just normal? Kids are gonna pick on kids. No one likes bullying, but how are you gonna stop it? There's already anti-stalking laws in place, ya know...

The girl is to blame for her death. I'm sorry, but she is. She did it.

Ignore away if that bothers you.
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Is possible that some blame is to be put on the person who bullies someone to the point of suicide?
 
DA60 said:
Good points, but you are wasting your time.

People like NewWorldOrder and Excon and some others on here think they have seen it all when clearly they have not a clue. They simply do not have the life experiences and/or the intellectual/emotional capacity to understand what this teenaged girl probably felt when she took her life.

To you and I it seems obvious what she was probably going through.

But to them?

It is TOTALLY over their heads.

They only see black and white...they (apparently) cannot see the grey.


I am of course assuming they are/were not bullies themselves and are not just trying to put the consequences of their actions in a less negative light.
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Stop bullying me.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I agree with you, but I honestly don't even think they actually believe their own nonsense. They are simply bored and have absolutely nothing better to do with their time than to bait people into nonsensical arguments.
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You maybe right.

Or maybe you are giving them too much credit.
 
zstep18 said:
Is possible that some blame is to be put on the person who bullies someone to the point of suicide?
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Ummm...maybe?

I guess some blame can go anywhere. If my wife takes a shower and then makes the coffee, instead of making the coffee and then taking a shower, and I leave a little bit later than I would have otherwise, and a truck runs a red light and hits me, does she share some of the blame for the accident? I wouldn't have been there then otherwise, right?
 
Fisher said:
Well, there is one option. First instead of using the word "Bullying" which is so polarizing and subjective, find a better term/phrase to describe it and set forth the types of specific acts which would constitute it, and then plea to the Court when the case comes up that they apply the porn "we know it when we see it" test. It isn't like most disorderly conduct/breach of the peace statutes that most every place in America have are particularly well-defined.
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I call it negligent homicide: deliberately creating an unreasonable risk of death to a child.
 
You have to go after specific acts with the intent of causing harm and then use the words to show the intent to do harm. You cannot go after words alone and survive a free speech challenge. It is not rocket science.
 
DA60 said:
Lol...:rolleyes:


Have a nice day.
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It's sad that you're unable to see the irony. What defines bullying? If someone thinks they're being bullied, are they?

Those- among many others- are the questions that need to be addressed before getting up in arms about 'anti-bullying'. Think, guys, as opposed to just feeling. You're supposed to be adults, right?
 
Pinkie said:
I call it negligent homicide: deliberately creating an unreasonable risk of death to a child.
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I think you'd have better luck with a stalking/harassment angle than a homicide angle but you have to not make the speech part of it, just the pattern of conduct.
 
Child-on-child bullying is, IMO, somewhat different. I'd need quite a few facts before I'd be willing to convict a child for homicide for the death of another child.

But an adult? One who went on the net looking for a child to bully to death?

I would have no lost sleep finding that person guilty of some level of homicide, and IMO, our kids will be safer when we start enabling our prosecutors to put the Lori Drews of this country behind bars where they belong.
 
Fisher said:
I think you'd have better luck with a stalking/harassment angle than a homicide angle but you have to not make the speech part of it, just the pattern of conduct.
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I'd be open to any reasonable suggestion, because as of today, any adult who has an axe to grind with you can kill your child for revenge and we cannot do a damned thing, legally, if he kills using the net.
 
Pinkie said:
I'd be open to any reasonable suggestion, because as of today, any adult who has an axe to grind with you can kill your child for revenge and we cannot do a damned thing, legally, if he kills using the net.
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:lol: :lol:

What in the ****? Sure, he can kill them....if he can convince them to kill themselves. I guess anyone can kill someone else if they can do that, really.
 
Pinkie said:
I'd be open to any reasonable suggestion, because as of today, any adult who has an axe to grind with you can kill your child for revenge and we cannot do a damned thing, legally, if he kills using the net.
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Perhaps start with an existing statute and just make it a felony: For instance, here is Florida's

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

(d) “Cyberstalk” means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.
(2) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(3) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat to that person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
 
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