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Thread: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post

    You seem to have some facts I don't, and no one else appears to have. Care to share what source you relied on to gather them?
    It's in the story linked in the OP. As for therapy it mentions she was getting counseling and anti-depressants. As for acting out it mentions that she was cutting herself. She threw herself in a ditch in front of her teachers. She was posting videos on YouTube implying she was thinking of suicide and talked to the whole freeking YouTube viewing public about how rotten she was being treated by her peers (which probably didn't help her relationship with them). She drank bleach in a suicide attempt. She was into drugs and alcohol.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    It's in the story linked in the OP. As for therapy it mentions she was getting counseling and anti-depressants. As for acting out it mentions that she was cutting herself. She threw herself in a ditch in front of her teachers. She was posting videos on YouTube implying she was thinking of suicide and talked to the whole freeking YouTube viewing public about how rotten she was being treated by her peers (which probably didn't help her relationship with them). She drank bleach in a suicide attempt. She was into drugs and alcohol.
    BEFORE she first encountered the internet predator?

    Either way, she clearly needed to be hospitalized, and the fact that she was not is likely due to lack of insurance. One of my big beefs with Obamacare is that it did not dictate a reasonable level of coverage for mental health care.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea View Post
    Bullying is still as isolating, painful, and damaging as that of yesteryear. It may be worse now that we can harass people not only at school but online in their own homes. Words can dig deep and fester. This girl cried for help and a friend and received hate in return from her peers. Yes, she made some big mistakes, but People have done worse and been treated better.
    I agree 100%.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    And the reason why she was being bullied by her peers is because she slept with another girl's boyfriend. The creepy old man thing was because she didn't have the common sense to not send pics of her tits to a complete stranger. It's also not the first time she tried to kill herself, and she practiced self-mutilation, so clearly, there were profound psychological issues that nobody on the MSM is going to discuss, because there's no profit to be made in the truth of the matter.

    People get bullied, it's a fact of life, and it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Next thing we know, we'll have the "save the children" brigade crying out that bullying is an act of terrorism, and use some other dead child as a martyr for their half-cocked crusade.
    Your ignorance is astounding, and what the payoff could possibly be for posing as an asshole on this subject escapes me.

    Welcome to my iggy bin.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    BEFORE she first encountered the internet predator?

    Either way, she clearly needed to be hospitalized, and the fact that she was not is likely due to lack of insurance. One of my big beefs with Obamacare is that it did not dictate a reasonable level of coverage for mental health care.
    You think all of that could have come just out of this series of encounters over the internet in an otherwise healthy girl? I think that's pretty unlikely, but I'll stipulate that I'm working with a severe deficit of facts, and I could be badly off target.

    The problem with hospitalization is probably not funding but the strict requirements that have to be met to confine someone involuntarily. Even though she was a minor professionals are very sensitive to issues of patient autonomy these days.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You think all of that could have come just out of this series of encounters over the internet in an otherwise healthy girl? I think that's pretty unlikely, but I'll stipulate that I'm working with a severe deficit of facts, and I could be badly off target.
    She may have had some underlying mental illness, IDK. However, this girl experienced far more than "a series of encounters on the internet". Her classmates were involved in helping the predator taunt her. She had real life bleeding into online, and online bleeding into real life -- and this means, she had no peace, no safety, and no respite.

    If this adult predator had been sexually assaulting her, she would have had some safety and relief when she wasn't physically in his presence -- but the fact that he was mentally torturing her made this 24/7/365.

    Yes, I do think a healthy child can be driven to suicide by such abuse and I think it's the kids who are already disturbed who are most likely to be selected by an online predator.


    The problem with hospitalization is probably not funding but the strict requirements that have to be met to confine someone involuntarily. Even though she was a minor professionals are very sensitive to issues of patient autonomy these days.
    Well, the child need not consent, but her parents sure must, you're right about that.

    I was thinking of the various tragedies, like Andrea Yates, where profoundly disturbed people are sent home by mental hospitals because their insurance coverage has been exhausted.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Your ignorance is astounding, and what the payoff could possibly be for posing as an asshole on this subject escapes me.

    Welcome to my iggy bin.
    The payoff is preserving the freedom of speech, instead of using emotion to push an agenda run by special interest groups. Let's outlaw bullying, make it illegal because we don't like it. Then we decide that since we can outlaw bullying, we can outlaw "hate speech" about Muhammad because it makes middle eastern Muslims riot and murder people. Then let's outlaw any disparaging words against Christianity, or Congress, or anything else, because some overly sensitive person who was obviously mentally ill killed themselves.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    I have said it before, the solution is simple.

    Make everything that is illegal for an adult to do, illegal (to the same degree) for a teenager to do - and with the exact same penalties. Like assault, blackmail, threats of violence, extortion, fraud, etc..

    Also, encourage students who are slandered and defamed by persons in public to take them to court if the allegations are serious enough (like flat out lying about people on the net by identifiable persons).

    I am sick an tired of people treating teenagers as children - they are not. They can have sex, be parents, work jobs, fight in wars (illegally), get married, commit murder and drive cars.

    If they illegally assault another student, they should be under the same laws and penalties as 'adults' are.


    As for 'bullying' in ways that do not fall under any of the above - I am afraid there is little that could be done without starting to restrict free speech.

    You cannot outlaw 'name calling' - accept in the 'defamation of character/slander' sort of way. But that should be a civil, not a criminal matter.
    Last edited by DA60; 10-22-12 at 05:33 AM.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I have said it before, the solution is simple.

    Make everything that is illegal for an adult to do, illegal (to the same degree) for a teenager to do - and with the exact same penalties. Like assault, blackmail, threats of violence, extortion, fraud, etc..

    Also, encourage students who are slandered and defamed by persons in public to take them to court if the allegations are serious enough (like flat out lying about people on the net by identifiable persons).

    I am sick an tired of people treating teenagers as children - they are not. They can have sex, be parents, work jobs, fight in wars (illegally), get married, commit murder and drive cars.

    If they illegally assault another student, they should be under the same laws and penalties as 'adults' are.


    As for 'bullying' in ways that do not fall under any of the above - I am afraid there is little that could be done without starting to restrict free speech.

    You cannot outlaw 'name calling' - accept in the 'defamation of character/slander' sort of way. But that should be a civil, not a criminal matter.
    Everything an adult can do that is a crime, is also a crime when a child does it. Although there's some variation among states, the "age of intent" to commit a criminal act hovers between 5 and 7. If a 7 year old committed blackmail, that 7 year old could be prosecuted and imprisoned, although most likely as a juvenile justice matter.

    The problem isn't that teenagers enjoy some immunity that adults do not. The problem is that (last I knew) crimes such as stalking, harrassment, etc. contemplate real life interactions that place a victim in reasonable fear of actual, physical harm. We still do not have a federal law that criminalizes "bullying" on the net, not even when the perpetrator is an adult and the victim is an avowed child.

    As far as I know, no state has such a law, either.

    This is not because our lawmakers are uncaring; it goes back to Pirate's concerns. How would bullying be penalized? What speech would be legal and which a crime? Could we still tell one another to STFU?

    We value of freedom of speech in this country and we have a social contract that we can all speak like assholes as long as the topic is in some way political -- we even expect our elected officials to talk like assholes. In this bruising but vigorous environment, how do we select out just that speech that may drive a child to suicide and criminalize only that, without burdening or chilling all other noisome speech?

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Everything an adult can do that is a crime, is also a crime when a child does it. Although there's some variation among states, the "age of intent" to commit a criminal act hovers between 5 and 7. If a 7 year old committed blackmail, that 7 year old could be prosecuted and imprisoned, although most likely as a juvenile justice matter.

    The problem isn't that teenagers enjoy some immunity that adults do not. The problem is that (last I knew) crimes such as stalking, harrassment, etc. contemplate real life interactions that place a victim in reasonable fear of actual, physical harm. We still do not have a federal law that criminalizes "bullying" on the net, not even when the perpetrator is an adult and the victim is an avowed child.

    As far as I know, no state has such a law, either.

    This is not because our lawmakers are uncaring; it goes back to Pirate's concerns. How would bullying be penalized? What speech would be legal and which a crime? Could we still tell one another to STFU?

    We value of freedom of speech in this country and we have a social contract that we can all speak like assholes as long as the topic is in some way political -- we even expect our elected officials to talk like assholes. In this bruising but vigorous environment, how do we select out just that speech that may drive a child to suicide and criminalize only that, without burdening or chilling all other noisome speech?

    The law in schools/between teenagers is definitely different then the law among adults, imo.

    Law enforcement is simply not called into most teenaged, non-life threatening, law breaking situations. These maters are usually handled 'internally' or 'kept between peers'.

    Most adults simply do not take these actions as seriously from teenagers as from adults.


    As for the net, the laws should be the same.

    You cannot extort, threaten, defame/slander, etc..

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