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Thread: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

  1. #841
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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    An excellent question.

    The answer is, in every case we have discussed, the law does not now exist that would permit a prosecution, except that we could charge the 9 year who took a photo of her naked classmate with child pornography.

    Stalking, harrassment, terroristic threats, etc. -- these laws do sometimes get used to prosecute cyber-bullying, but they are most useful on the least dangerous types: peer to peer bullying. Law enforcement and criminal justice need another tool in the tool bag to get the adults who target children on the net -- something that criminalizes speech they know is directed at a child and is reasonably foreseeably creating a risk of grave harm to the child.

    Yeah, as LaMidRighter indicated, those are already all covered. I thought you had me on ignore anyway, since you wanted to ignore anyone that disagreed with you?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    How else do people learn that certain behaviors have great consequence? I am not a fan of charging minors with a felony but there should be some punishment for asking minors for naked pictures due to the permanence of it, and sexualizing children is wrong even when done by other kids. There could be a lesser charge for minors in possession of child porn, but that behavior needs to get curbed or else you could end up with adult child abusers.
    This, I have issues with. Yes, you're right, children need consequences. I'm not sure that any legal action is a good way to accomplish that goal without possibly sabotaging young lives. How else to people learn that certain behaviors have great consequence? Parental pressure, peer pressure, school censure, etc, etc. These kinds of things have been around basically forever, and they've worked pretty well for most of us (who are adults), without getting the court system involved. Getting the court system involved can have lifelong ramifications on a child, and it seems like overkill.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Thats a parenting problem. Not a law enforcement problem.
    It's both -- once the photos hit the net, they are certain to be collected by real pedophiles.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    This, I have issues with. Yes, you're right, children need consequences. I'm not sure that any legal action is a good way to accomplish that goal without possibly sabotaging young lives. How else to people learn that certain behaviors have great consequence? Parental pressure, peer pressure, school censure, etc, etc. These kinds of things have been around basically forever, and they've worked pretty well for most of us (who are adults), without getting the court system involved. Getting the court system involved can have lifelong ramifications on a child, and it seems like overkill.
    I admit it looks like overkill, the reason I'm in favor of it isn't to be harsh, but rather if the kids aren't taught what legal consequences are they will cross that line in adulthood and that's where real penalties come into play. The good thing about juvenile records is they become sealed and aren't usually counted against adults, the bad thing is that we have kids who need an introduction to penal law.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    It's both -- once the photos hit the net, they are certain to be collected by real pedophiles.
    Yep. I look at it this way, if I had a daughter and she made this girl's mistake then whoever posted her pics is not only committing a crime, but also taking away my rights to control of my child. They would then be issuing photos of my kid to god knows what kind of person.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Normally I would agree, but we are speaking of serious criminal charges. As an officer I know you've seen the pattern of behavior in criminals and recidivism first hand, my only point about having some legal consequence is to hopefully curb bad illegal behaviors in these kids so they don't make a habit of them. I'm not saying throw them in federal prison for their childhood but maybe a stint in Juvi for a month or so, hell I'm good with a week.
    I am less concerned with curbing the bad behavior of the photographers than I am with protecting the children in the photos.

    Try to imagine the anguish of a parent or a child who realizes that the child's naked photo has been collected by pedophiles. How safe would you feel, letting your kid out to play in the front yard once you knew that had happened?

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I am less concerned with curbing the bad behavior of the photographers than I am with protecting the children in the photos.
    I'm more interested in the short term in a child's well being. I also realize that kids who ask for these types of photos are in dangerous territory, they are in danger of becoming child predators themselves as they enter adulthood and I also worry about those they would victimize in the future. It's not a good thing at any angle.

    Try to imagine the anguish of a parent or a child who realizes that the child's naked photo has been collected by pedophiles. How safe would you feel, letting your kid out to play in the front yard once you knew that had happened?
    I would be sick.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Yep. I look at it this way, if I had a daughter and she made this girl's mistake then whoever posted her pics is not only committing a crime, but also taking away my rights to control of my child. They would then be issuing photos of my kid to god knows what kind of person.
    Absolutely -- we must have a zero tolerance policy towards child porn.

    OTOH, nobody wants to see a "sex offender" label hung on a 9 year old for life.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I admit it looks like overkill, the reason I'm in favor of it isn't to be harsh, but rather if the kids aren't taught what legal consequences are they will cross that line in adulthood and that's where real penalties come into play. The good thing about juvenile records is they become sealed and aren't usually counted against adults, the bad thing is that we have kids who need an introduction to penal law.
    I get that, but you really could make that argument about quite a lot of things. E.g. fistfights on the playground (assault/battery), stealing someone's lunch money (larceny/robbery), etc, etc. There are far less severe ways to approach childhood misbehavior that don't involve the legal system. This situation, is, if anything, less intentionally bad (from the perspective of the kids involved). If a child is stealing from someone, or beating them up, they know what they're doing is harmful (unless they're sociopaths). If they're taking pictures of each other without clothes on, they may genuinely not understand why that might be harmful. From a legal perspective, it's a much less criminal thing than the more overt crimes I mentioned. Given that, it makes more sense to deal with the issue in a non-legal context.

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    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I'm more interested in the short term in a child's well being. I also realize that kids who ask for these types of photos are in dangerous territory, they are in danger of becoming child predators themselves as they enter adulthood and I also worry about those they would victimize in the future. It's not a good thing at any angle.
    The "sexting" craze (I hope) usually involves kids in middle and high school, which is bad enough -- but this crap of taking naked photos for purposes of bullying and shaming can happen in the 2nd grade.

    My kid supports a "no cell phones on school property" rule, backed up by jammers and security.


    I would be sick.
    I would be homicidal.

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