Page 76 of 90 FirstFirst ... 2666747576777886 ... LastLast
Results 751 to 760 of 894

Thread: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

  1. #751
    Educator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    12-06-15 @ 08:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,226

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You can say that about lots of things. Whoever this guy swerved to avoid was 'responsible'. Maybe the guy who opened his door was running late because his kid was sick, so in his rush to get to work on time, he opened the door without looking. Maybe that dude's kid is directly tied to the guy on the bike's death.

    I was about to take my dog out, but I saw your post and wanted to respond. Maybe when I take him out after this, they'll be a cracked out, desperate guy walking by who stabs me for my wallet. Are you going to be directly tied to my death, because if not for your post I would've missed him?

    Or are people just responsible for their own actions, even as we know that everyone is connected and that no man is an island?
    This is not just some butterfly effect. If it was Maxson, he did direct harm to her. It is not murder but a serious crime. He has apparently victimized many young girls.

  2. #752
    Sage
    OldWorldOrder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    10-12-15 @ 12:13 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,820

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    This is not just some butterfly effect. If it was Maxson, he did direct harm to her. It is not murder but a serious crime. He has apparently victimized many young girls.
    And he should be punished for whatever crimes regarding stalking and harassment are on the books where he lives.

    But she killed herself. That's on her.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  3. #753
    All Warm and Fuzzy
    FluffyNinja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Miss-uh-Sippie
    Last Seen
    10-21-17 @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    4,831

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post


    ...sluts and attention-whores are not 'great people', they were never going to be anything anyway. By definition, no, their downfall is not a tragedy. This lady was not a victim of society, she was a bad person society rightfully rejected. She deserves our thanks for removing herself from the gene pool.
    I guess this explains why you are such a strong defender of abortions.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  4. #754
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    im not really sure if this is the proper place for this, but since it's the topic of bullying, i guess it's ok to place it here.






    This is a very tragic story of a girl that commited suicide because of bullying. Yes, she made some big mistakes, but these mistakes do not make it ok to bully.

    This is the video that she post prior to killing herself. very sad.

    This needs to stop!



    Amanda Todd: Bullied Canadian Teen Commits Suicide After Prolonged Battle Online And In School


    in 3...2...1.... here comes the pro-bully posts
    No - you're looking to shallow at her issues. It's not *all because of bullying* - her very first act she mentions is a sign that she had serious emotional issue and she needed help for them - of course - her actions spiraled out of control quickly.

    All of these 'bullied teens who commit suicide' evidently had serious emotional problems before the suicide - that probably began to surface in childhood or in their early teen years . . . and culminated in the 'end' - long ago she should have received therapy and intervention and support.

    Therapy, intervention, and support - it's not possible to stress this enough. I'm sure there were a lot of other things *before* the webcam incident that were a sign that she needed help *back then* . . .and no one noticed.

    Often - people never notice until it's way too late.

    Until the 'early-early warning signs' are noticed and addressed we won't get anywhere in the right direction with 'help' - it's not all about bullying. A lot of teens commit suicide who are NEVER bullied. Teen suicide is a much bigger problem that that.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  5. #755
    All Warm and Fuzzy
    FluffyNinja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Miss-uh-Sippie
    Last Seen
    10-21-17 @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    4,831

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Negative. She exposed herself to several men, not just one. She had sex with several men, not just one. She was not raped, she was a willing participant over and over again.


    Yeah they're typically attention whores.


    See? Attention whores.


    Yes, it does. That's exactly what it does, and she did it several times.


    That means he's responsible for a sex crime, not a suicide, get it right.


    Because she didn't choose that more nurturing environment. She didn't follow to the path to live with a better relative or friend, she didn't try any of that. She decided to become a slut. She wanted to fit in with men by fitting them into her.


    Yeah she was so abused she had all this free time to go be a slut with different guys. Wow so controlled. She did have a lot of support from her family, but she turned her back on it. Now she's a statistic and the only reason she won't be forgotten about in 72 hours is because she killed herself at the same time multiple records were broken for the first sky-dive from space. That was a ****in genius attention-whore move. Real people are in awe and celebrating something that matters and this little skank has to hog the camera 'look at me look at me I'm gona kill myself'.


    It's the perfect portrait of great and small, the man who jumped out of the sky and the skank who drank bleach.

    I applaud them both.
    Where did you get all this personal info regarding this minor child? Nowhere have I read or heard that she had multiple sex partners or that she posted topless pics on the web more than once? I did read that the topless pics were posted on a "Minors Only" image blog and that the original predator created a fraudulent membership to get her pic because he was an adult and could not otherwise access the site. Is this all just hyperbole that you've added to make your position look better?
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  6. #756
    Educator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    12-06-15 @ 08:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,226

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And he should be punished for whatever crimes regarding stalking and harassment are on the books where he lives.

    But she killed herself. That's on her.
    I don't feel any need or moral authority to condemn her. Whatever she did, she did to herself.

    He (or whoever did this) hurt others and that elicits quite a different response. Legally, I can't see how he could be charged with her murder. Anyone who cares too can condemn him morally as a murderer or worse.

  7. #757
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    When this thread was started several days ago, I didn't see any reason to chime in. From my perspective, this was a tragic incident, but from a debate perspective, it was a no brainer. Is it tragic that this girl killed herself? Of course it is. Is bullying bad? Of course it is. Child pornography? Internet harassment? Bad and bad. End of story.
    Much to my surprise, this thread has endured for 70+ pages. Out of curiosity I checked back in this afternoon to discover a seething pool of vitriol. Having browsed some of the comments, it's now clear to me that some people who have been commenting on this topic have some very weird, borderline disturbing takes on this situation. I'm going to address the two themes that strike me as the most wrong-headed:

    1) Responsibility
    The argument has been made - by several people - that this girl is solely responsible for her suicide. In a myopically literal sense, that is, of course, true. She did make the decision to take her own life, and that decision was hers, and hers alone. However, that line of thinking ignores another relevant factor:
    Early in this thread, someone made the analogy that people's views on the responsibility issue would be different if this girl had killed her parents rather than herself. That might be true, but let's run with that hypo for a second, and take a look at how the law would approach the situation. Murder cases are very rarely clear cut, and when the perpetrator has killed someone while under conditions of heightened emotional distress, the law takes that into account. For example, if I were to kill my wife and her lover after finding the two of them in bed, I'd have a pretty strong "heat of passion" defense; which would reduce my likely conviction from murder II to voluntary manslaughter. What does that mean? It means that the law recognizes that sometimes the actions of others contribute to the bad actions of a criminal actor. In the example I just provided, the law is explicitly recognizing that I had been put into an especially bad state of mind by the actions of two other people (my hypothetical wife, and the dude she's banging). The point, of course, is that bad actions do not necessarily have any one source; and while my actions are my own responsibility, my actions are sometimes influenced by the bad actions of others. Consequently those people are, in fact, at least partially to blame for the ensuing tragedy.
    The current situation is clearly analogous. Yes, this girl chose to take her own life, but that in no way absolves the numerous people in her life who treated her in an extremely awful fashion of their responsibility for their contributions to her mental state at the time she killed herself.
    It's easy to step into a conversation like this and simply blame the girl, but that does her an injustice. Other people influenced her in terrible ways through their own actions. That is their responsibility. To the extent that they influenced her, they are partially culpable for the tragedy that ensued. Again, the law recognizes this kind of thing in a variety of ways. It's the reason that harassment is a crime. It's one of the reasons that stalking is a crime. It's the sole reason that intentional infliction of emotional distress is a tort.
    In short, I'd advise the people in this thread who are fixated on demonizing this girl for taking her own life to take the time to think about what went into getting her into the mental state that would cause her to believe that killing herself was a good idea (or possibly her only option). The people who helped get her to that mental state are partially to blame for what happened.


    2) She was a slut/whore/etc
    This issue is less complicated, and far more awful. A couple of people have repeatedly made disparaging remarks about this girl on the grounds that she was promiscuous (in their eyes). Some have gone as far as to say that the world is better off without her because she was (in their eyes) promiscuous.
    This sort of thinking smacks of puritanical misogyny of the worst sort. There is nothing wrong with a girl wanting to have sex. There is nothing wrong with a girl having sex. I like sex. Pretty much everyone does. Attaching a moral judgment to such a thing to the point where you feel it's justified to conclude that this girl deserved what happened to her is, frankly, disgusting. An interest in sex really has little bearing on a person's character; and to pretend otherwise, while attempting to write of a tragedy is - at best - a form of self delusion. I can't help wondering if the people calling this girl a slut, and condoning her death on that ground, would do the same if it had been a male child who killed himself.

    I imagine a couple of the die-hards on this thread are going to jump down my throat for my comments. Understand that I have no interest in getting into a pissing match on this topic. It's a tragic thing, and deserves some level of deference and respect. I won't be responding to flame-bait, repetition, or other similarly non-productive comments. If your response contains words like "slut" or "whore" or anything analogous, I won't be responding. Given those ground rules, if you've actually got an argument to make in response to what I've just said, by all means go for it.

  8. #758
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    What about

    3) Her parents were responsible for her care during her life and did not see and / or care about her issues that were obviously around before the bullying even started.

    Providing help for someone who has issues is essential - but is only possible if mom/dad (etc) know there's even a problem, recognize and step in . . . it's complicated. But overall - education on these issues would be the remedy.

    (and other things related to a better family dynamic- a more solid parent/child relationship so she felt ok to communicate . . . saying no to peer pressure . . . not putting yourself online to be 'looked at' and so on)
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  9. #759
    Sage
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,807

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    He is not going to be tried for murder. Settle down.
    No, but he should be tried for stalking and harassment of a minor.

  10. #760
    Guru
    Aderleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-08-16 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,294

    Re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    What about

    3) Her parents were responsible for her care during her life and did not see and / or care about her issues that were obviously around before the bullying even started.

    Providing help for someone who has issues is essential - but is only possible if mom/dad (etc) know there's even a problem, recognize and step in . . . it's complicated. But overall - education on these issues would be the remedy.

    (and other things related to a better family dynamic- a more solid parent/child relationship so she felt ok to communicate . . . saying no to peer pressure . . . not putting yourself online to be 'looked at' and so on)
    I'm not sure that's really an issue, as such (or at least not an issue that's particularly relevant to either of the points that I've made). Yes, obviously, parental involvement is a good thing. Avoiding peer pressure is a good thing. Those are relevant concerns, but have very little bearing on the degree to which bullies and a cyberstalker had a direct impact on this girl's mental health.

    The "not putting yourself online" thing is also a valid interest, and is something that every young person (especially girls) should be aware of. I actually forgot to bring this up, but it's an interesting topic. I've seen some back-and-forth on this thread along the lines of "she brought this on herself by flashing random dudes." Yeah, maybe. But young people have very little awareness of the consequences of their actions. You can tell a 13 year old girl over and over again that if she flashes someone, it's going to be on the internet forever, but she's going to be thinking to herself "yeah, that happens to people, of course I get that MOM, but in this particular situation, it'll be fine." Analogously, we all had to watch horrific images of gruesome accidents during drivers ed. That doesn't stop thousands of young men from racing each other in their dad's cars every Saturday night. Everyone involved in such a thing is thinking (to the extent they're thinking at all) "yeah, I know that driving like a crazy person could potentially kill me, but it's not going to happen tonight." Teenagers are stupid, and even when they believe they're being careful, they're probably overlooking things that would be obvious to an adult. That's exactly the position this girl was in.

Page 76 of 90 FirstFirst ... 2666747576777886 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •