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Thread: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Very nice, Fisher. Outlawing being mean isn't going to work and isn't practical, so let's all calm down and have some dip.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Perhaps start with an existing statute and just make it a felony: For instance, here is Florida's

    Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

    (d) “Cyberstalk” means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.
    (2) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    (3) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat to that person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    This is a valuable tool, but it would not have allowed a DA to prosecute Lori Drew.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    This is a valuable tool, but it would not have allowed a DA to prosecute Lori Drew.
    Why not? If that had been the law then and where that happened perhaps they wouldn't have had to go to the federal unauthorized access by violating the Myspace terms of service contrived argument. Lori Drew and others sent her harassing messages via the internet. That is what the FL statute appears to address. Edit it the way you think it should be edited and start sending it around to people in your state if you do not have one of your own already on the books. Encourage it to be a felony so people can be more easily extradited into your jurisdiction. Take ownership of this issue and act to change the laws if that is your goal.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Why not? If that had been the law then and where that happened perhaps they wouldn't have had to go to the federal unauthorized access by violating the Myspace terms of service contrived argument. Lori Drew and others sent her harassing messages via the internet. That is what the FL statute appears to address. Edit it the way you think it should be edited and start sending it around to people in your state if you do not have one of your own already on the books. Encourage it to be a felony so people can be more easily extradited into your jurisdiction. Take ownership of this issue and act to change the laws if that is your goal.
    Because Drew never expressly threatened the child, as in, she did not say "I will be waiting outside school today to beat on you", and because until the very end, Drew's attention to the child was not unwelcome.

    Some have toyed with the idea of making it a crime for an adult to contact an (apparent) child on the net unless they know that child IRL. Of course, even a law like this would not have criminalized Drew's conduct, as she did, in fact, know the child.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Because it's just normal? Kids are gonna pick on kids. No one likes bullying, but how are you gonna stop it? There's already anti-stalking laws in place, ya know...

    The girl is to blame for her death. I'm sorry, but she is. She did it.

    Ignore away if that bothers you.
    I don't think you truly understand the true nature of "bullying" my friend. In this case, the 12-yr-old girl was cyberstalked by a 30 yr-old male predator who hacked her e-mail and social networking accounts, circulated nude pics of her on the web and blackmailed her for THREE years. We're also talking about a series of peers who told her repeatedly that she was whore and needed to kill herself. She was confronted at school by 15 others from a previous school who beat her to the ground and video taped it........and in your twisted world this qualifies as "kids picking on other kids?" You haven't got a clue......I sincerely hope that you never produce offspring.
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 10-16-12 at 09:43 PM.
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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Well...okay? I could be rude and hope any kids with your veiwpoint are bullied until they're dead, but what would that prove?

    The point is what happened to this girl wasn't "bullying". Many crimes were perpetuated upon her and then she decided to kill herself. Nothing there has anything to do with "bullying".
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    You could keep your computer in the living room and observe your child using it -- some cases like this have occurred -- and still lose that child to bullicide, Pirate.

    We criminalize all sorts of speech: soliciting a bribe, defrauding by a confidence game, espionage, conspiracy to murder, etc. The mere fact that we want to criminalize speech isn't the problem; it's making sure we do this is in the least restrictive way possible.

    BUT:

    Megan Meier died almost this date SIX YEARS AGO. For SEVENTY TWO months, some of the best and brightest have been trying to craft a law that won't step on any toes needlessly. In that time, HUNDREDS of children have been bullied to death on the net.

    You don't like this version of the bill? Fine by me -- but I still need you to be actively engaged in looking for the solution, k?
    There is no such thing as bullicide, Pinkie. I dont who made that "term" up but fact is the correct term is suicide. And no matter who people want to blame, the bottom line after all the crap is cleared away, this young woman took her own life, by her own hand. She is completely responsible for that act, whether she really understood or not, no matter all of the extenuating circumstance. The blame for her death lies squarely on her shoulders.

    Secondly I am not about budge on my position on speach. We already have too many laws as is. The law proposed is ridiculusly bad law. Further there are already laws on the books for fraud and other crimes that would applicable. Part of free speach is having to deal with evil speach with evil intent toward our children. We cannot protect them from everything. There is no way. And a vast majority of children can quite frankly deal with the same sitution better than this young girl did. I wish I didnt have to say that but Ive raised children and have a couple that arent mine running about the house now. They are a hell of alot tougher than everyone gives them credit for.

    The fact remains on these crimes listed, action must accompany them before they can be considered crime. For instance consperiacy to murder requires some action on the part of the perpatrator to act on the murder, like researching poisoning methods, to bring said charge, let alone get conviction.

    Hundreds of children dieing, from being bullied on the internet??? I want facts, reports, something. There are over 300 million people in the US. And we need to make a law for how many over six years? More die of murder and attempeted murder in six months, there already laws on the books against that.
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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    What? Bullicide? Jesus Christ.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I refuse to believe you are really that daft. I'm sorry, but it's obvious you and others are saying this crap to piss people off and nothing more. Have fun with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I agree with you, but I honestly don't even think they actually believe their own nonsense. They are simply bored and have absolutely nothing better to do with their time than to bait people into nonsensical arguments.
    And you are both wrong.
    I am saying it because it is true and factual.
    She is the only person responsible for her suicide. No one else.



    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    I don't think you truly understand the true nature of "bullying" my friend. In this case, the 12-yr-old girl was cyberstalked by a 30 yr-old male predator who hacked her e-mail and social networking accounts, and blackmailed her for THREE years. We're also talking about a series of peers who told her repeatedly that she was whore and needed to kill herself. She was confronted at school by 15 others from a previous school who beat her to the ground and video taped it........and in your twisted world this qualifies as "kids picking on other kids?" You haven't got a clue......I sincerely hope that you never produce offspring.
    Yes we already know that girl was unstable, and that instability lead to her inability to cope and her making the decision to commit suicide.

    There is a real disconnect here with you folks.
    You all want to hold a person responsible who is not.
    The harasser is not responsible for her decision or her instability. Nor should he ever be held so.

    Hell his actions are far removed in time from her actions of taking her own life that it is obvious that she did not take her life because of him.
    And yet you want him held responsible for her death.
    That is the "someone else is to blame" mentality that is so prevalent in today's society. It is sickening.


    The funny thing here is you all want to criticize others because they say she is responsible for her own actions (which she is), yet had she taken the life of her previous harasser, or previous assaulter, you would be more than willing to hold her responsible for that.
    The responsibility doesn't change just because the life she chose to take was her own, and not someone else's.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Hundreds of children dieing, from being bullied on the internet??? I want facts, reports, something. There are over 300 million people in the US. And we need to make a law for how many over six years? More die of murder and attempeted murder in six months, there already laws on the books against that.
    The statistics on bullying and suicide are alarming:

    •Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people, resulting in about 4,400 deaths per year, according to the CDC. For every suicide among young people, there are at least 100 suicide attempts. Over 14 percent of high school students have considered suicide, and almost 7 percent have attempted it.
    •Bully victims are between 2 to 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims, according to studies by Yale University
    •A study in Britain found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying
    10 to 14 year old girls may be at even higher risk for suicide, according to the study above
    According to statistics reported by ABC News, nearly 30 percent of students are either bullies or victims of bullying, and 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying


    Sources:
    WebMD, Depression Guide, "Recognizing the Warning Signs of Suicide" [online]
    Nemours, KidsHealth, "Helping Kids Deal with Bullies" [online]
    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Suicide Prevention, "Youth Suicide" [online]
    Yale University, Office of Public Affairs, "Bullying-Suicide Link Explored in New Study by Researchers at Yale" [online]
    Matt Dickinson, The Independent, "Research finds bullying link to child suicides" [online]
    Michael Inbar, MSNBC Today, "‚€˜Sexting‚€™ bullying cited in teen‚€™s suicide" [online]
    Susan Donaldson James, ABC News, Health, "Teen Commits Suicide Due to Bullying: Parents Sue School for Son's Death" [online]
    Erik Eckholm and Katie Zezima, The New York Times, "6 Teenagers Are Charged After Classmate‚€™s Suicide" [online]

    ..........
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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