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Thread: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If you're talking about adults, that's fine.

    This was a child.

    The adults failed her in this case. That means her school/s, that means her parents, and that means Facebook.
    In some jurisdiction there are laws regarding this behavior requiring the school personnel to act.. Massachusetts Law About Bullying and CyberBullying

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Ahhh, a well-reasoned response and still coming to the wrong conclusion. This little girl wasn't even fully cooked. To blame her for her parents' failure is short-sighted.
    You can blame. She was the only one responsible for her decision. I'm curious. If instead of killing herself, she had chosen to kill her parents. Would you have held her responsible for that? How about if she'd killed those she who she felt were bullying her? Would that have been her responsibility or theirs? So, do you blame the victims?

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're as cold-hearted a poster as I've ever seen on this board. I'm assuming you didn't take the 8:55 it took to watch the video.

    This young girl was failed by her parents. Big-BIG-time. She's dead. She shouldn't be. She should be having fun . . . going to parties . . . having sleepovers with her girlfriends. Fixing her nails. Doing her hair. Instead she's dead.

    Have a nice day.

    Edit: I just posted this on my Facebook site. Maybe it'll save a life. PARENTS!!! Wake the **** up!!!
    She was definitely failed by her parents and probably also by the professionals that were supposed to help her.

    The best antidote to juvenile bullying is strong parental support and by support I mean actually getting involved with your kids. Helping them run away from adversity and supporting the "victim" mentality isn't help. It strikes me that most of the moving between schools was done in an attempt to run away from the issue at hand rather than to address that issue and it's little wonder that when the child found that running away wasn't going to work and that the issue would not be directly addressed she made a drastic decision.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    This is a very tragic video and such a lose.

    I can empathcize with it and I would not dare show it to my wife. She faced scares from when she posted some pixs of herself on a forum when 16. Not nude. There are many videos of her otherwise from athletic competitions others had made - and somehow her pictures were linked to those videos - thus it known who she was. And where. But I won't go into that.

    People, particularly young, need to be STRONGLY educated about the DANGERS of the Internet, PARTICULARLY photos and personal information. I've started a thread way back of the dangers of hidden video cameras too. We had a different kind of hidden video camera recording scare ourselves, but learned and got ahead of it. There are literally porn sites urging teens and men to take secret videos of sex with girls/women and send them to the website - including particularly if they plan on breaking with her and to do so as a punishment and weapon. It is impossible to get those offline - though I think law should change in that regards.

    Such is why I don't post pictures and in part why I draw the line on how much I get into some topics that in some way give TMI about myself/us or about our life, life style etc. There are a lot of dangerous, wacko people. That is also just a reality.

    This has become SO real and common, I think that at a very young age ALL students should be required to attend a school course on personal safety, including Internet safety. This video should be shown in such classes. And a hundred more examples. And how to avoid those dangers.

    Sometimes on the forum I've been criticized for the "strict" monitoring, inquiring and control of my teenage daughter. I can not count how often I or my wife (we are adoptive parents of her) warned her about the Internet and particularly facebook. Yes, we checked on it regularly. Yes, we wanted to know who, what and where. Always. About everyone, all time, and everywhere. But she was so used to that she not only was not offended, but almost disappointed if we missed a beat on our involvement in her life having already become so accustomed. No matter what, she always knew someone - us - totally cared about her and her life. She always had some to praise her successes and someone to boast to who truly cared. She knew there was someone to talk through problems, challenges and issues.

    Its a very sad story. I'm certain her parents are ripping their hearts out in what could they have done?
    Last edited by joko104; 10-12-12 at 03:40 PM.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    Verthaine: "That may be true,but there seems to be a number of peoples who's deeds and words influenced her to the point of deciding to take her own life. As a parent my sympathy and condolences goes out to her family."

    As a parent my sympathy and condolences go out to her family, and her friends, and her teachers, and everyone who might blame themselves. My nephew is 19 now but when he was nine his mother ran off with a boyfriend abandoning a 1-year old, a 4-year old, and a 9-year old. Six months later the father committed suicide. A friend of mine adopted the boys and they became my nephews. The 9-year old told me, when he was ten, that it was his fault his father committed suicide.

    We talked for an hour and I stressed that only one person was responsible and that was his father. And, he was drunk when he killed himself.

    I've investigated many suicides and most were incredibly stupid. People looking for sympathy, looking for attention, looking to hurt someone. Perhaps three percent of the ones I investigated were for good cause. I have far more sympathy for the survivors than I do for the selfish people who commit suicide.

    And the saddest part? This girl thinks her suicide will matter. Lives will be shattered. People will never recover. Sorry, but it's not true. There is some short-term suffering but life goes on. A woman who worked for me was threatening suicide, weekly, and I asked her one day if she'd considered the effect her suicide would have on others. "Oh, I realize it would be terrible but I simply can't cope." I laughed and said, "Only terrible for you. The others at work will be really upset until we get the list of applicants and hire someone new. In six months, if someone mentions your name people will say, "Who?" You mom and dad will be very upset for a couple of months but their lives will go on, too. They'll think of you on your birthday, maybe, and at Christmas but other than that, not so much. The only person really effected will be you." She eventually left our organization. Three years later I got an inquiry from a university many states away about her. Apparently she was still alive and still threatening to kill herself.

    I knew a man who had an employee who was a drunk. He skipped work Monday and Friday. Other employees were asking why Bob got four-day weekends and they didn't. When Bob was told no more four-day weekends he flew into a rage, said he'd kill himself, and it would be the boss's fault. The idiot boss believed him and quit his job. Suicides are often an irrational form of bullying.

    I have far more sympathy for the hundreds of murder victims in Chicago that no one outside their families care about. I have far more sympathy for children growing up unable to read or write in a wealthy country spending billions on education. I am sorry this young woman killed herself. She shouldn't have. But, her family and friends have my sympathy. Not her. But, I don't hate her. Hatred isn't a big part of my life. Unlike those like Gov. Dean who hates all Republicans. Not dislikes or disagrees with but hates. Hatred is a sad condition that often leads to suicide.
    Ummm.Okay?
    Good for you.
    Whether and who you have or haven't any sympathy for is your concern,not mine.
    All I did was point out that there are people out there whose actions and words apparently influenced her decision to take her own life.
    If you chose not to hold them partially responsible ,that of course is your right.
    I choose to do otherwise.
    Like I said on a previous post,I think what this child need was help and understanding during her life,not conde,nation after her death.
    But hey,that's just my opinion.
    Last edited by Verthaine; 10-12-12 at 03:42 PM.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    You can blame. She was the only one responsible for her decision. I'm curious. If instead of killing herself, she had chosen to kill her parents. Would you have held her responsible for that? How about if she'd killed those she who she felt were bullying her? Would that have been her responsibility or theirs? So, do you blame the victims?
    I'm not going to answer your questions because that's not what happened. She didn't kill anyone else. She killed herself. Her immature little self couldn't deal with what was happening to her. Looks like about 15, maybe younger. You may think she's the only one responsible for her actions, but I blame her parents. Where were they? Did they keep her off the internet after all this happened -- when she switched schools? No. Did they insist on pressing charges? No. Did they supervise her internet usage in the first place? No.

    Her parents failed her. She killed herself. It's a tragedy, and I don't "blame" her.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Perhaps there should be an age limit for posting pics to the web and by phone (21). It would solve a good deal of the problems. Or, require a signoff from a parent or guardian in order for underage to post pics. Like moderated newsgroups.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    This is why public schools are garbage, and private schools are a LOT better.
    No please read my post towards the end. If the mindset of the society is set in one direction they will elect persons who are or say they are aligned with that society and the system that the elected officials manage will be in line with that mindset.
    The teachers here did what they did because they knew and have known for many years that NOTHING would happen to them and their bosses had thier backs all the way up. (as i said).
    In other places such as Michigan, their actions would have resulted in at least the teachers and possibly others getting fired or arrested.
    It is not a function of the schools. Private schools have the same issues in some places. It is a matter of the mindset of the public who allows these things to happen and continually elects people who think this type behavior is permissable.
    change the system to support childrens rights to not being harrassed and you change the schools mindset.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    You can blame. She was the only one responsible for her decision. I'm curious. If instead of killing herself, she had chosen to kill her parents. Would you have held her responsible for that? How about if she'd killed those she who she felt were bullying her? Would that have been her responsibility or theirs? So, do you blame the victims?
    Those who acted against her as described should be charged for their crimes. It is that simple.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    Verthaine: "That may be true,but there seems to be a number of peoples who's deeds and words influenced her to the point of deciding to take her own life. As a parent my sympathy and condolences goes out to her family."

    As a parent my sympathy and condolences go out to her family, and her friends, and her teachers, and everyone who might blame themselves. My nephew is 19 now but when he was nine his mother ran off with a boyfriend abandoning a 1-year old, a 4-year old, and a 9-year old. Six months later the father committed suicide. A friend of mine adopted the boys and they became my nephews. The 9-year old told me, when he was ten, that it was his fault his father committed suicide.

    We talked for an hour and I stressed that only one person was responsible and that was his father. And, he was drunk when he killed himself.

    I've investigated many suicides and most were incredibly stupid. People looking for sympathy, looking for attention, looking to hurt someone. Perhaps three percent of the ones I investigated were for good cause. I have far more sympathy for the survivors than I do for the selfish people who commit suicide.

    And the saddest part? This girl thinks her suicide will matter. Lives will be shattered. People will never recover. Sorry, but it's not true. There is some short-term suffering but life goes on. A woman who worked for me was threatening suicide, weekly, and I asked her one day if she'd considered the effect her suicide would have on others. "Oh, I realize it would be terrible but I simply can't cope." I laughed and said, "Only terrible for you. The others at work will be really upset until we get the list of applicants and hire someone new. In six months, if someone mentions your name people will say, "Who?" You mom and dad will be very upset for a couple of months but their lives will go on, too. They'll think of you on your birthday, maybe, and at Christmas but other than that, not so much. The only person really effected will be you." She eventually left our organization. Three years later I got an inquiry from a university many states away about her. Apparently she was still alive and still threatening to kill herself.

    I knew a man who had an employee who was a drunk. He skipped work Monday and Friday. Other employees were asking why Bob got four-day weekends and they didn't. When Bob was told no more four-day weekends he flew into a rage, said he'd kill himself, and it would be the boss's fault. The idiot boss believed him and quit his job. Suicides are often an irrational form of bullying.

    I have far more sympathy for the hundreds of murder victims in Chicago that no one outside their families care about. I have far more sympathy for children growing up unable to read or write in a wealthy country spending billions on education. I am sorry this young woman killed herself. She shouldn't have. But, her family and friends have my sympathy. Not her. But, I don't hate her. Hatred isn't a big part of my life. Unlike those like Gov. Dean who hates all Republicans. Not dislikes or disagrees with but hates. Hatred is a sad condition that often leads to suicide.
    Since you personalized it about yourself and your experiences, in my opinion if your profession involves investigating suicides you are in the wrong profession.

    That you have no sympathy for the teen in that video is, candidly, truly disgusting to me.

    That she did not name anyone but herself makes it clear her intentions were not to bully anyone at all. It shows a very kind, gentle teenage girl. Not for a second do I think her goal was to hurt anyone. She ended her life to end the emotional pain she saw no way to end or leave behind - stating how she had pro-actively tried to again and again, no other reason.

    Here is why I see your message you wrote from your personal life views is disgusting and truly sick in my hard opinion of it...
    Your somehow figuring how to try to use her so-sad death to make some extreme summary partisan hack statement in your conclusion is SO bizarre that - well, I best not write it out for the rules.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-12-12 at 03:52 PM.

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