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Thread: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

  1. #341
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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Can someone be punished for encouraging someone to commit suicide? William Francis Melchert-Dinkel, who has been referenced in this thread, was a nurse who joined suicide chat rooms and encouraged people to commit suicide, falsely entered suicide pacts, and watched those who committed suicide via webcam. Should he have been punished?
    Can someone be punished for what he did? I believe he was in Minnesota. If I agree with it is an entirely different matter though.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The thing that really gets me is that there's always the, crowd that thinks their "girl" who somehow got tricked into flashing her boobs online. I'm willing to bet this wasn't her first big ****-up, was it Mom and Dad?
    Yet another country heard from.

    If the parents had done everything within their power to protect this child, she still could have been driven to suicide via her own interaction on the net using a cell phone, a game system, a neighbor's pc, a public pc, or just by hearing from her classmates what is being said about her online.

    There is no form of "broadcasting" in our past that is in any way comparable to the wall to wall, 24/7/365 intensity of the internet, especially on a child.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Can someone be punished for what he did? I believe he was in Minnesota. If I agree with it is an entirely different matter though.
    No, he was immune from criminal charges in the US -- he was arrested by Canada.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    No, he was immune from criminal charges in the US -- he was arrested by Canada.
    That is not what your link says.

    He was found guilty of aiding a suicide under Minnesota law, which provides penalties for anyone who “intentionally advises, encourages, or assists another in taking the other’s own life", punishment can be up to 15 years in prison and a fine of up to $30,000.[7][14][21][38] He was sentenced on May 4, 2011, to 360 days in jail.[39]

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Now she was brainwashed somehow? When did that happen in the story? Though yes, your friends and classmates might know if you put your boobs on the Internet and people are all talking about it and sharing the pictures. Sometimes you do stupid ignorant things and you pay for them in this life and the Internet doesn't change that much. It just speeds up the delivery and makes it harder to control the damage.
    Yes. The impact of the internet on an American child can be compared to any other form of mind control you like, including drugs.

    I realize that you disagree with this characterization -- as so many parents of children who have suicided also disagreed. I know you will want to be persuaded I'm right and not just take my word for it.

    However, I am 100% confident that if you look into this, you'll come to agree with me. And once you do, you'll also agree that using the net as a weapon to kill a child should be a criminal act.


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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is not what your link says.
    That article is out of date then, Henrin, and I apologize for not reading it more carefully first.

    He was able to get the Minnesota conviction overturned on appeal, and was subsequently arrested in Canada. Minnesota then used the Canadian arrest to yank his nursing license.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Yet another country heard from.

    If the parents had done everything within their power to protect this child, she still could have been driven to suicide via her own interaction on the net using a cell phone, a game system, a neighbor's pc, a public pc, or just by hearing from her classmates what is being said about her online.

    There is no form of "broadcasting" in our past that is in any way comparable to the wall to wall, 24/7/365 intensity of the internet, especially on a child.
    Logically, do you see suicide as being a logical choice by a reasonable person?

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    That article is out of date then, Henrin, and I apologize for not reading it more carefully first.

    He was able to get the Minnesota conviction overturned on appeal, and was subsequently arrested in Canada. Minnesota then used the Canadian arrest to yank his nursing license.
    Ok then, thanks for the information.

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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    If an adult predator were able to lure a child into the woods and kill them, would you blame the child?

    Obviously not.
    Dear, we are not dealing in hypotheticals here, so thank you for answering your own question.
    There are no similarities with your hypothetical and this case.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I can understand that some people have trouble grasping just how immediate, intense, global and overwhelming the internet can be to a child, but this is ignorance. Your inability to grasp that neither this child nor her parents were in control is just that -- ignorance.
    Clearly, the ignorance is in what you are saying as underlined.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Any adult who seeks children on the net and then abuses that child to suicide is a murderer, plain as if they had shot that kid to death. The law needs to adapt to modern technology and treat the internet as the weapon it can be.
    That isn't what happened in this case. So you are engaged in hyperbole.
    She took her life because she was unstable.

    Nor does this does not need to be made into criminal law. That is ridiculous.

    And the proposed law that you later sighted, I hope fails miserably. It is not needed.
    Just as in this case, the lady is not responsible for the other unstable person's death. Nor should she be.

    All that is, is the current desire to blame others, "someone else is to blame", attitude.
    Sorry, that doesn't fly.

    There are already laws on the books to take care of the harassment and the assault in this case.
    But the only person in this case who is responsible for her death is her. No one else.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Are you responsible for your actions when you are under the influence of a drug you did not consent to consume?

    No?
    Your hypothetical has no bearing on this case.
    And we should really stick with reality.
    Otherwise we will start seeing hypotheticals about teens being enticed into rape by the intoxicating effects of the way a girl dresses.

    And I am sure you will see that just as absurd as I see this current effort to shift responsibility onto others, when clearly she is the only one responsible, just as the teens in the above hyp would be.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Then neither is that child.
    Wrong!


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    You can disagree with me that the net is as powerful on a child's mind as a drug could be on you, and eventually, I believe I could persuade you.
    No you couldn't. You are more than welcome to try, but you will not succeed in what you intend.
    Puppy love is as intoxicating if not more so, yet it does not remove ones responsibility for there actions.

    She is still responsible for cutting herself, for drinking bleach, for taking drugs on top of the internet even, and for taking her own life.
    No one else.
    Not even the interwebs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    But first you need to admit that a person is not responsible for their acts unless that person is also in command of their will and their mind.
    Sorry dear. There is nothing to admit to here other than that she is responsible for her own actions.
    And I have already admitted that. Numerous times even.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    What is your motivation for this "brave stand for personal responsibility" you seem to be carving out for yourself here, Excon?
    She is responsible for her own action. No one else.
    Other than those trying to place blame where it does not belong, no none needs any motivation to state the truth.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    You're getting blowback from every political lean on DP. Perchance you might consider if these people know a bit about this subject that, as yet, you do not.
    There is not much more to know that would change her responsibility for taking her life.
    She is solely responsible.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    What amazes me if that no matter how serious the subject under discussion might be, "some people" are so willing to jack a thread so as to indulge a petty squabble and stroke their own ego.
    You quote me and make such a comment when the other was the initiator and I the responder.
    Strange to say the least.
    But it clearly shows your bias.





    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well that's it for me, I am through trying to reach this person.
    And so it must be.
    I guess I am also done trying to reach you.
    She is responsible for her her actions. No one else.
    Nothing you have said changes that.
    Nor could it.
    To bad you can't see that.





    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    Should bullying be punished?
    That was already addressed in an affirmative w/caveats.

  10. #350
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    re: The bullies win again[W710; 739]

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Logically, do you see suicide as being a logical choice by a reasonable person?
    A child suicides for different reasons than an adult does, ric, and the younger the child, the more true this is. The child will not usually grasp the finality of death, makes more mistakes about how much of a relief his death will be, cannot as easily articulate that he needs help, doesn't have the life experience to see that things can change for the better, etc.

    Some of the kids who have been "bullied to death" on the net were as young as 9 years old. It's not possible to analyse their "choice to suicide" as you would an adult's.

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