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Assange Speaks to UN

And if I unload an AK-47 into a nursery, but manage to hurt little to no children in the process, it doesn't change the fact that I wantonly unloaded rounds into a place with a reasonable notion that harm could come from it.

We have a method for which people can be whistleblowers in this country...he chose to forgo that and steal an extremely large amount of data and provide it for all to see, including our enemies...potentially not just causing militaristic but also diplomatic damage. The fact it was not as bad as it could've been is only minorly relevant to the overall action.


Please, tell me how unloading an AK-47 into a nursery and releasing diplomatic cables are in any way alike. #failanalogy
 
Please, tell me how unloading an AK-47 into a nursery and releasing diplomatic cables are in any way alike. #failanalogy

In both cases an individual is taking an illegal action that has a realistic expectation that harm could potentially come from it in some fashion, even if their intent isn't to harm OR even if the end result is no (or little) harm. Both are a case of someone breaking the law and acting in an irresponsable method that could potentially cause additional problems beyond the initial illegal action.
 
In both cases an individual is taking an illegal action that has a realistic expectation that harm could potentially come from it in some fashion, even if their intent isn't to harm OR even if the end result is no (or little) harm. Both are a case of someone breaking the law and acting in an irresponsable method that could potentially cause additional problems beyond the initial illegal action.


I disagree. Assange made an ass of the US gov't by once again showing, for the whole world to see, that the Classification system was being used to cover up embarrassments and faux paxs and in this case wanton, needless deaths. Thou shalt not make an ass of diplomats and politicians even if they make extraordinary attempts to demonstrate same. It is the TRUTH that has hurt in this matter and lots of hyperbole and rhetoric will never change that.
 
So it was ok for them to publish it right?
No.



What money? He's broke. Self gratification? Well now that could be used for anything that anyone does now can't it? Has it ever been valid to use? No. Known world wide? He already was.
He's broke now that he got caught and has to spend that money, and the money of supporters to keep him out of prison. And Self Gratification does matter, he does this out of ideology and activism.



You're "guessing"? Its been 2 years since all this went down and you have no evidene of even one person being killed due to these leaks?
We got the literal police here. When the Taliban says they're reviewing the leaks to find the names of these informants so they can "punish" the informants who have been named, what do you think that means?
 
Whistleblowing generally implies that there is specific information or a specific issue you want to alert the public to by releasing information. Assange is not a whistle blower, he got his hands upon State Department communications cables in their hundreds of thousands and dumped them without making any effort to sift through them. He had no idea if people could be hurt, conflicts started or exacerbated, etc etc, because he didn't even really have a great idea of what was on them.



Assange is a facilitator of whistleblowers. Because they all risk their jobs and lives by blowing the whistle, Assange and Wikileaks are merely the middlemen.

In the main case, the actual whistleblower was Bradley Manning, who acted in the same role and was motivated by the same ideals as was Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon Papers. Once the congress finished its investigation of the Pentagon Papers, it found that the Pentagon had practiced "purposeful witholding and distortion of facts", behavior that it still practices today.

Manning is a hero in every sense of the word, for he has revealed in their brutal details the crimes of government.

Assange may be an arrogant man, but that does not make him wrong. He should be decorated.
 
Of course you realize that the Corporate Media is for sale to the highest bidder in a Capitalist/Corporate society. Print and digital media space is a commercial enterprise and you buy that space. The bigger and better the space, the more you pay. You could do your homework on the "Mighty Wurlitzer" and initiate some curiousity in the ol' cerebellum regarding some of that space being bought by Intelligence services, gov't, gov't agencies, contractors, etc., to massage those cranial interpretations as opposed to objectivity.

And in a communist society it favors the government, so which way do you want it?
 
Manning betrayed his country's secrets with no thought for the consequences. He should be treated the same as other traitors. The fact that he's a hero to the Far Left is irrelevant.
 
I disagree. Assange made an ass of the US gov't by once again showing, for the whole world to see, that the Classification system was being used to cover up embarrassments and faux paxs and in this case wanton, needless deaths. Thou shalt not make an ass of diplomats and politicians even if they make extraordinary attempts to demonstrate same. It is the TRUTH that has hurt in this matter and lots of hyperbole and rhetoric will never change that.

Let me ask you, are all other countries above reproach, or do you just really hate the US?
 
Why the hell should they free Manning? Dude is a traitor.

If leaking an apache vid of the heli executing weaponless people after the ones with weapons have been killed = treason... ALL HAIL THE RED QUEEN. *presents neck for cutting*
 

So you believe in restricting the press?

He's broke now that he got caught and has to spend that money, and the money of supporters to keep him out of prison. And Self Gratification does matter, he does this out of ideology and activism.

He was broke before also. Thier website went down a couple of times before they released anything about the US due to lack of money.

We got the literal police here. When the Taliban says they're reviewing the leaks to find the names of these informants so they can "punish" the informants who have been named, what do you think that means?

And yet in the two years since this happened there is still no proof that anyone was killed due to the leaks. Surely in two years they could have dug up a name by now and killed that person.
 
If leaking an apache vid of the heli executing weaponless people after the ones with weapons have been killed = treason... ALL HAIL THE RED QUEEN. *presents neck for cutting*

So you found one thing that counterbalances all the negative to convince you he's not a traitor.
 
So you found one thing that counterbalances all the negative to convince you he's not a traitor.

I have no idea if he is truly a traitor or not because I have no idea the full spectrum of what he did. The military is in full control of his situation. For all I know he is a scape goat for greater processes. Or perhaps he's an inside man and this was all a ploy to sell more info to others that we really know about and hes not even actually locked up. I have no way to truly know one way or another. But I do know about that 1 video...
 
Let me ask you, are all other countries above reproach, or do you just really hate the US?

Just because everyone is doing something doesn't make it the right thing to do.
 
So you believe in restricting the press?
I believe that people should feel that human life is more important than a top news story that people will forget by next week.



He was broke before also. Thier website went down a couple of times before they released anything about the US due to lack of money.
An estimated net worth of 1.3 mil is hardly broke.

And yet in the two years since this happened there is still no proof that anyone was killed due to the leaks. Surely in two years they could have dug up a name by now and killed that person.
Who says they didn't? Out of 750,000 classified military documents, you're telling me that none of it aids the enemy in any way?
 
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Manning betrayed his country's secrets with no thought for the consequences. He should be treated the same as other traitors. The fact that he's a hero to the Far Left is irrelevant.

No sir, he betrayed his GOVERNMENT'S secrets.

This country and its government are two separate entities. Indeed, the country existed first, if you will, and by way of the founding document CREATED the government so that Justice might be established, a more perfect union formed, and the common defence might be improved.

And as Ike predicted in 1961, the government is way out of control.

He exposed the crimes--murder--of his government, just as Daniel Ellsberg revealed the crimes of the government.

Manning was motivated by conscience--the ability to know right from wrong--and for that he should be commended.

But instead the vengeful government kept him in torturous conditions in violation of still more laws, including the UCMJ.
 
If leaking an apache vid of the heli executing weaponless people after the ones with weapons have been killed = treason... ALL HAIL THE RED QUEEN. *presents neck for cutting*

:lol: :lol:

Man, war would be a ****ing shock to some of you folks.
 
:lol: :lol:

Man, war would be a ****ing shock to some of you folks.

Yeh. Lots o' these Republican pseudo-patriots, especially. Draft evaders, champagne soldiers, too valuable for war. But and it's a but that would do the circus fat lady a favor. We are discussing starting wars and killing lots of people for business. Energy, military contracts, intelligence, transportation, etc. and the argument is that we should find another way to make a living. Just because we like war doesn't make it right, nor is it what we want to leave our children. That's my opinion.
'
 
And we're talking starting wars and killing lots of people for national interest. So you can enjoy the life you enjoy. Is providing for your children right?

Right and wrong are just subjective, let's not get hung up and what our personal moral beliefs are.
 
:lol: :lol:

Man, war would be a ****ing shock to some of you folks.
Ya but this isnt war. This is "OVERSEAS CONTINGENCY OPERATION". With a dash of mercs trained at "US TRAINING CENTER".
 
It's whatever you want it to be, I guess.
 
I believe that people should feel that human life is more important than a top news story that people will forget by next week.

Its been 2 years and we're still talking about it...guess that far exceeds your requirement.

But that aside exposing truth can also save lives. Something that is far harder to measure than that of killing.


An estimated net worth of 1.3 mil is hardly broke.

Was that before or after the US cable releases? Is it materials (IE house, car etc etc) or cash?

Who says they didn't? Out of 750,000 classified military documents, you're telling me that none of it aids the enemy in any way?

This is called "moving the goal posts". You went from trying to argue that deaths happened due to the cables to a general "aid the enemy in any way".
 
Manning was motivated by conscience--the ability to know right from wrong--and for that he should be commended.

Manning was not motivated by conscience. He was motivated by revenge. Revenge because he didn't like how our government treated gays in the military.
 
And how do you know that Kal?
 
:lol: :lol:

Man, war would be a ****ing shock to some of you folks.

Somebody else coined the phrase that 'war is hell', but it is certainly true. Yessir, it IS shocking, no doubt about it. The smell of human blood splattered inside a helicopter is a pretty SHOCKING experience. Disgusting too.

Humans might be divided into 2 categories--those who love war, and those who love peace.

If the shoe fits, wear it.
 
Its been 2 years and we're still talking about it...guess that far exceeds your requirement.

But that aside exposing truth can also save lives. Something that is far harder to measure than that of killing.
What lives were saved?




Was that before or after the US cable releases? Is it materials (IE house, car etc etc) or cash?
Doesn't matter. He has more assets than the average jack off, which means he's hardly broke.

This is called "moving the goal posts". You went from trying to argue that deaths happened due to the cables to a general "aid the enemy in any way".
I was actually returning to my original argument. You changed the goalposts by stating that the information didn't aid the enemy in any way because the information was old. Classified is classified.

Manning stole over 750,000 classified military documents for the sole purpose of dissemination. His actions aided the enemy during a time of war, Assange was an accomplice to that. Manning should be executed as a spy, and Assange should be dealt with accordingly by the European courts, specifically, members of the coalition forces.
 
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