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Assange Speaks to UN

I don't know why everybody is going after Manning. He had a great game yesterday and denver won. Just ask john elway. He'll tell ya.:roll:
 
Kal'Stang said:
I don't care what country you're in. Rape cannot happen if the people involved consent to it.

Statutory rape involves minors. We're talking about adults here.
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Are we? Last I heard, the charges involved minors.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Which he did. For example the helicopter that shot up a bunch of civilians. (can't remember name of that particular event or I would post it)
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How was that a misdeed?
 
Cover up? Who tried to cover it up?

It was people carrying around large equipment in a place that had just suffered an ambush, that was cordoned off. Killing them was the right move, tactically. I'm sure they'd do it again if they were in the same situation. You wouldn't? That's weird. Do you have any military experience?
 
ecofarm said:
Are we? Last I heard, the charges involved minors.
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Wanted to add...

With one of the women they had consentual sex with a condom, the second time they had sex he didn't use one even though she told him to use one. She later was with him at a party in which she commented to another person that she thought it was wonderful being at that party with him. Sure doesn't sound like she was that upset huh?

The second woman they had consentual sex however during one of the sexual trists the condom broke. She later cooked him breakfast, joked around and then she paid the train ticket back to the area he was staying at.

All these women wanted was for Assuange to get tested for STD's. (something which he apparently refused to do and that makes him a douchebag...but not a rapist)

These are what the charges are relating to.
 
Kal'Stang said:
No. The charges involve two adult women who took him to their own home.
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Ok. Not sure where I heard something about minors. I haven't followed his case much, mostly just the wikileaks themselves.



Kal'Stang said:
Even Stockholm's Chief Prosecutor Eva Finne said that it wasn't rape.
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Swedish Director of Prosecution Marianne Ny says she is reopening the rape investigation against Mr Assange, eleven days after a chief prosecutor announced the arrest warrant had been dropped. Ms Ny is also head of the department that oversees prosecution of sex crimes in particular.

"There is reason to believe that a crime has been committed," she says in a statement. "Considering information available at present, my judgement is that the classification of the crime is rape."

Ms Ny says the investigation into the molestation claim will also be extended. She tells AFP that overturning another prosecutor's decision was "not an ordinary (procedure), but not so out of the ordinary either".

Stockholm District Court approves a request to detain Mr Assange for questioning on suspicion of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion. Sweden's Director of Prosecution Marianne Ny says he has not been available for questioning.

Mr Assange's British lawyer Mark Stephens says his client offered to be interviewed at the Swedish embassy in London or Scotland Yard or via video link. He accuses Ms Ny of "abusing her powers" in insisting that Mr Assange return to Sweden.

Swedish police issue an international arrest warrant for Mr Assange via Interpol.
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BBC News - Timeline: sexual allegations against Assange in Sweden


Don't you think that your statement above is a bit lacking?
 
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OldWorldOrder said:
Cover up? Who tried to cover it up?

It was people carrying around large equipment in a place that had just suffered an ambush, that was cordoned off. Killing them was the right move, tactically. I'm sure they'd do it again if they were in the same situation. You wouldn't? That's weird. Do you have any military experience?
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No they were not carrying large equipment. It was some people that had had a flat and they were fixing it. There were children in that van. There was absolutely no evidence of any "equipment" large or small.

And the cover up was that they had classified that footage and never released it.
 
You cannot be a whistle blower if you have no idea what you are releasing. Manning handed over information on hundreds of thousands of documents that he never read. As I said before if this was only the Baghdad Airstrike, or specific and targeted documentary releases, he would be in a much better decision. His sympathy from the usual journalistic circles has been less than stellar precisely because he was so irresponsible and nondiscriminatory.
 
:lol:

So anything that's classified is being 'covered up'?

And yes, there was large equipment. It was the camera equipment that was believed to be an RPG.

So, you're in a gunship responsible for the safety of the people on the ground. There was just an attack and you've yet to find out if any of your people on the ground had been killed. The area is cordoned off for safety. You see people with large equipment inside of it, peeking around corners and whatnot. You don't know that they're an unaccounted bunch of journalists looking for angles, because there's no reports of them being there. Do you allow them to setup that equipment, directed towards your fellow soldiers?
 
Kal'Stang said:
No they were not carrying large equipment. It was some people that had had a flat and they were fixing it. There were children in that van. There was absolutely no evidence of any "equipment" large or small.

And the cover up was that they had classified that footage and never released it.
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Was this the case that took place during a firefight and it appeared that the van was a resupply but it turned out that it was a human shield?
 
ecofarm said:
Ok. Not sure where I heard something about minors. I haven't followed his case much, mostly just the wikileaks themselves.
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I have been following it a bit more.

ecofarm said:
BBC News - Timeline: sexual allegations against Assange in Sweden


Don't you think that your statement above is a bit lacking?
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From your own link...

The arrest warrant is withdrawn. "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape," says one of Stockholm's chief prosecutors, Eva Finne.
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No I don't.
 
Kal'Stang said:
No I don't.
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But after the charge was removed, it was re-established by a more specialized prosecutor. You don't think that's relavent to your statement that the charge was dropped?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
:lol:

So anything that's classified is being 'covered up'?
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That is often why things are classified.

OldWorldOrder said:
And yes, there was large equipment. It was the camera equipment that was believed to be an RPG.

So, you're in a gunship responsible for the safety of the people on the ground. There was just an attack and you've yet to find out if any of your people on the ground had been killed. The area is cordoned off for safety. You see people with large equipment inside of it, peeking around corners and whatnot. You don't know that they're an unaccounted bunch of journalists looking for angles, because there's no reports of them being there. Do you allow them to setup that equipment, directed towards your fellow soldiers?
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I'm pretty sure that we are thinking of different events. But regardless the right thing to have done was to admit that they made a mistake, apologize for it, perhaps give restitution to survivors and families. Not make it classified and bury it.
 
Kal'Stang said:
That is often why things are classified.
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Er..no.

I'm pretty sure that we are thinking of different events. But regardless the right thing to have done was to admit that they made a mistake, apologize for it, perhaps give restitution to survivors and families. Not make it classified and bury it.
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I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same exact thing. Wikileaks called it Collateral Murder. Looks like a normal Apache engagement to me, but of course people with no experience would be shocked by it.

Anyway, helicopter feeds are always at least Secret. So who gives a ****? Just release every time someone ****s up? Why? Cause you're curious.

Now, you never did tell me what you'd do. I guess just not engage, and hope they didn't kill some of your comrades? You sound like you'd be great under pressure. I'd love to be in a sticky situation with you. "Hey guys! That could be a squirt gun! That other guy probably just has one of those collapsible prank knives! I won't shoot, I'm sure you guys will be fine."
 
Paschendale said:
That's quite a stretch. And certainly not compelling enough proof to convict someone of a crime.
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the effects have nothing to do with the conviction - it is the espionage, not the results thereof, that is the crime. Manning will likely be found guilty and frankly I hope he is shot. Those who violate their oath in order to betray their country, not caring whom they put in danger in a time of war deserve no less.
 
ecofarm said:
But after the charge was removed, it was re-established by a more specialized prosecutor. You don't think that's relavent to your statement that the charge was dropped?
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The whole thing makes me suspicious. I mean come on, the guy is being charged with something that wouldn't have even seen the light of day here in the US given the facts involved. (posted them in Post #158)
 
Kal'Stang said:
he didn't use one even though she told him to use one.
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I think that's rape. And if it turns out that he has HIV, it's murder.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Er..no.
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So they NEVER classify something as "classified" or "Top Secret" in order to cover things up? How nieve do you think I am?

OldWorldOrder said:
I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same exact thing. Wikileaks called it Collateral Murder. Looks like a normal Apache engagement to me, but of course people with no experience would be shocked by it.
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Thanks for that one looked it up but no, we are not talking about the same one. The one that I saw had a van in it and a few people.

OldWorldOrder said:
Anyway, helicopter feeds are always at least Secret. So who gives a ****? Just release every time someone ****s up? Why? Cause you're curious.
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Being curious has nothing to do with it. Doing the right thing has everything to do with it.

OldWorldOrder said:
Now, you never did tell me what you'd do. I guess just not engage, and hope they didn't kill some of your comrades? You sound like you'd be great under pressure. I'd love to be in a sticky situation with you. "Hey guys! That could be a squirt gun! That other guy probably just has one of those collapsible prank knives! I won't shoot, I'm sure you guys will be fine."
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I would have made sure that the guy was carrying an RPG and not a news camera....Which comes to mind...how do you mistake this...

A news camera.jpg

For this....

RPG.jpg

??
 
ecofarm said:
I think that's rape. And if it turns out that he has HIV, it's murder.
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What you think is rape and what actually is rape is two different things. But hey...if it really was rape why did she go to a party with him afterwards and comment to a friend that it was really cool being at the party with him?
 
Kal'Stang said:
What you think is rape and what actually is rape is two different things. But hey...if it really was rape why did she go to a party with him afterwards and comment to a friend that it was really cool being at the party with him?
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I'm not gonna discuss the side stuff and possible hearsay. Nor will I endeavor into the possible psychological motives for suppressing trauma and the many examples we have of that.

I will only say that someone not using a condom when requested is rape, and if he is HIV positive, it is murder. IMHO.

Perhaps that's why he refuses to be tested, because it would reveal that he has committed (at least attempted) murder.
 
Kal'Stang said:
So they NEVER classify something as "classified" or "Top Secret" in order to cover things up? How nieve do you think I am?
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Uhhh...no, they don't. There's an SOP for classifying things. You knew that, didn't you? Or are you picturing some random general smoking a cigar, randomly shouting "Classify it!'?

Thanks for that one looked it up but no, we are not talking about the same one. The one that I saw had a van in it and a few people.
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It has a van.

Being curious has nothing to do with it. Doing the right thing has everything to do with it.
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They did the right thing. They killed that which they perceived as a threat. It's the most right thing you can do in a war.

I would have made sure that the guy was carrying an RPG and not a news camera
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So you would've waited. It's a good thing you were never in the military. You'd have been responsible for the deaths of lots of your people.

....Which comes to mind...how do you mistake this...

View attachment 67135537

For this....

View attachment 67135538

??
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Watch the video and find out. You didn't even know it had a van in it, so you might want to go back and watch it again.
 
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