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Thread: Assange Speaks to UN

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    I absolutely agree Chris, but the way our politicians work, they would use taxes for the war machine and tell us that they were using it for Easter Egg Hunts, or something else. And many americans would believe them.

    My earlier post was a bit of an oversimplification, no doubt. Many, including myself, can conceive of a just war, but all the wars in my lifetime have been undeclared and not connected with justice in any way, shape or form.

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I said that the truth "can" save lives. Key word being "can". I never said that it did. I have as much proof that it did as you have proof that it killed. None.
    It exposed Afghan nationals who were working as informants. It gave names and locations within Afghanistan, which is controlled by the Taliban and Mujahadeen. But I'm sure these people, who are notorious for mass murder, extortion, and coercion through torture and violence just let it slide this time.

    Now, how much of that money is made by means other than donations? Is any of it from donations? Or do you just assume that it is?
    He made 1.3 million from an autobiography after he became the peoples champion of not knowing when to shut the **** up, as well as an $800,000 dollar deal with another publisher in the works. Speaking of, in his book, he says this little gem:
    Quote Originally Posted by Julian Assange
    'Well, they're informants so, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it.'
    What a swell guy.


    I've never said that the information didn't aid the enemy in any way. I have only questioned whether people were killed because of it.
    Of course there were, it just isn't in the papers. We already ****ed up by letting this happen, why go further by confirming kills for the Taliban?

    I agree that Manning betrayed his country and should be dealt with accordingly. However I do not agree that Assaunge should be punished because of publishing those cables. The ultimate job of journalists is to expose the truth, good or bad.
    Assange is an activist, not a journalist.

    If we start punishing journalists because of doing that then you are limiting freedom of the press. When you start doing that then you start controlling the press. At which point we are no better than those countries that do control the press. (like Iran) We open up a can of worms that should NEVER be opened. It starts allowing the government to dictate what can and cannot be published and told to the very people that they are suppose to be serving, not ruling.
    Yeah, that happened in 1798 with the Alien and Sedition Acts. Illegally publishing classified military information is not, and should never be protected by the First Amendment, just as libel, slander, incitement of violent acts, and terrorist threats aren't protected. There has always been limits to the First Amendment, and for good reason.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  3. #283
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    It exposed Afghan nationals who were working as informants. It gave names and locations within Afghanistan, which is controlled by the Taliban and Mujahadeen. But I'm sure these people, who are notorious for mass murder, extortion, and coercion through torture and violence just let it slide this time.
    Unless you have proof that they have done something then the only thing that you can logically conclude is that nothing has happened. Saying anything else is nothing more than fear mongering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    He made 1.3 million from an autobiography after he became the peoples champion of not knowing when to shut the **** up, as well as an $800,000 dollar deal with another publisher in the works.
    Ok, I concede the fact that he made some money with this. Now, whats the difference between what he has done vs any other media that makes money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Speaking of, in his book, he says this little gem:

    What a swell guy.
    No one that I know of has ever claimed that he is a saint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Of course there were, it just isn't in the papers. We already ****ed up by letting this happen, why go further by confirming kills for the Taliban?
    Umm...because then you, all the anti-Assuange folks, the government etc etc would be able to use it to limit the press even more...including trying to convict Assuange.


    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Assange is an activist, not a journalist.
    Yes he is an activist. But he is also a journalist. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Indeed you could argue that many media outlets now adays are activists also. Either for a war, against a war, for a president, for an incumbant etc etc etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Yeah, that happened in 1798 with the Alien and Sedition Acts. Illegally publishing classified military information is not, and should never be protected by the First Amendment, just as libel, slander, incitement of violent acts, and terrorist threats aren't protected. There has always been limits to the First Amendment, and for good reason.
    Yes and many agree that the Alien and Sedition Act would be considered unconstitutional today. And should have been then also. The reason that it wasn't ever declared unconstitutional was because the Supreme Courts right to judicial review was not established until Marbury v. Madison in 1803. (The sedition act expired in 1801) After Marbury v. Madison subsequent rulings indicated that it would have been considered unconstitutional.

    And there is just as much good reason to not limit the 1st amendment. Such as not allowing a government to achieve tyranny by keeping the masses uninformed.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Somebody else coined the phrase that 'war is hell', but it is certainly true. Yessir, it IS shocking, no doubt about it. The smell of human blood splattered inside a helicopter is a pretty SHOCKING experience. Disgusting too.

    Humans might be divided into 2 categories--those who love war, and those who love peace.

    If the shoe fits, wear it.
    Or people who understand it and people that don't.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And there is just as much good reason to not limit the 1st amendment. Such as not allowing a government to achieve tyranny by keeping the masses uninformed.
    The masses are already uninformed. Knowing the things Assange publishes isn't going to make them knowledgeable about international relations, military operations, or intelligence procedures, so what does it matter?

    They were uninformed before and they're uninformed after. People that aren't experts in things should really just shut the **** up about them; they're useless.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    The masses are already uninformed. Knowing the things Assange publishes isn't going to make them knowledgeable about international relations, military operations, or intelligence procedures, so what does it matter?

    They were uninformed before and they're uninformed after. People that aren't experts in things should really just shut the **** up about them; they're useless.
    Now isn't this funny. Here you all are complaining about people finding these things out and now you're just saying that it doesn't matter because they will still be uninformed. Hypocritical much?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    When did I complain?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    No sir, he betrayed his GOVERNMENT'S secrets.

    This country and its government are two separate entities. Indeed, the country existed first, if you will, and by way of the founding document CREATED the government so that Justice might be established, a more perfect union formed, and the common defence might be improved.

    And as Ike predicted in 1961, the government is way out of control.

    He exposed the crimes--murder--of his government, just as Daniel Ellsberg revealed the crimes of the government.

    Manning was motivated by conscience--the ability to know right from wrong--and for that he should be commended.

    But instead the vengeful government kept him in torturous conditions in violation of still more laws, including the UCMJ.
    Thanks for sharing. Also, thanks for not being in charge of national security.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    You're quite welcome Wiggen, and thank YOU for not understanding what national security IS.

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    I know enough about it not to leave it in the hands of Bradley Manning or Assange. Or folks like you.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
    London, 1962

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