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Thread: Assange Speaks to UN

  1. #271
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    I believe that people should feel that human life is more important than a top news story that people will forget by next week.
    Its been 2 years and we're still talking about it...guess that far exceeds your requirement.

    But that aside exposing truth can also save lives. Something that is far harder to measure than that of killing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    An estimated net worth of 1.3 mil is hardly broke.
    Was that before or after the US cable releases? Is it materials (IE house, car etc etc) or cash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Who says they didn't? Out of 750,000 classified military documents, you're telling me that none of it aids the enemy in any way?
    This is called "moving the goal posts". You went from trying to argue that deaths happened due to the cables to a general "aid the enemy in any way".
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  2. #272
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Manning was motivated by conscience--the ability to know right from wrong--and for that he should be commended.
    Manning was not motivated by conscience. He was motivated by revenge. Revenge because he didn't like how our government treated gays in the military.
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    And how do you know that Kal?

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post


    Man, war would be a ****ing shock to some of you folks.
    Somebody else coined the phrase that 'war is hell', but it is certainly true. Yessir, it IS shocking, no doubt about it. The smell of human blood splattered inside a helicopter is a pretty SHOCKING experience. Disgusting too.

    Humans might be divided into 2 categories--those who love war, and those who love peace.

    If the shoe fits, wear it.

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Its been 2 years and we're still talking about it...guess that far exceeds your requirement.

    But that aside exposing truth can also save lives. Something that is far harder to measure than that of killing.
    What lives were saved?




    Was that before or after the US cable releases? Is it materials (IE house, car etc etc) or cash?
    Doesn't matter. He has more assets than the average jack off, which means he's hardly broke.

    This is called "moving the goal posts". You went from trying to argue that deaths happened due to the cables to a general "aid the enemy in any way".
    I was actually returning to my original argument. You changed the goalposts by stating that the information didn't aid the enemy in any way because the information was old. Classified is classified.

    Manning stole over 750,000 classified military documents for the sole purpose of dissemination. His actions aided the enemy during a time of war, Assange was an accomplice to that. Manning should be executed as a spy, and Assange should be dealt with accordingly by the European courts, specifically, members of the coalition forces.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Somebody else coined the phrase that 'war is hell', but it is certainly true. Yessir, it IS shocking, no doubt about it. The smell of human blood splattered inside a helicopter is a pretty SHOCKING experience. Disgusting too.

    Humans might be divided into 2 categories--those who love war, and those who love peace.

    If the shoe fits, wear it.
    That's not true at all. I can't think of anyone who came back from deployment saying they just had a dandy ole time. People who love war need to be placed in an asylum for the good of the people around them.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  7. #277
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    What lives were saved?
    I said that the truth "can" save lives. Key word being "can". I never said that it did. I have as much proof that it did as you have proof that it killed. None.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Doesn't matter. He has more assets than the average jack off, which means he's hardly broke.
    Now, how much of that money is made by means other than donations? Is any of it from donations? Or do you just assume that it is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    I was actually returning to my original argument. You changed the goalposts by stating that the information didn't aid the enemy in any way because the information was old. Classified is classified.
    I've never said that the information didn't aid the enemy in any way. I have only questioned whether people were killed because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Manning stole over 750,000 classified military documents for the sole purpose of dissemination. His actions aided the enemy during a time of war, Assange was an accomplice to that. Manning should be executed as a spy, and Assange should be dealt with accordingly by the European courts, specifically, members of the coalition forces.
    I agree that Manning betrayed his country and should be dealt with accordingly. However I do not agree that Assaunge should be punished because of publishing those cables. The ultimate job of journalists is to expose the truth, good or bad. If we start punishing journalists because of doing that then you are limiting freedom of the press. When you start doing that then you start controlling the press. At which point we are no better than those countries that do control the press. (like Iran) We open up a can of worms that should NEVER be opened. It starts allowing the government to dictate what can and cannot be published and told to the very people that they are suppose to be serving, not ruling.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    And how do you know that Kal?
    Read it in the news media. Can't remember which one but a quick search for it came up with Wikipedia stating this...

    Manning told Lamo he passed the Baghdad helicopter attack ("Collateral murder") video to WikiLeaks shortly after this incident, in February 2010. In April, just as WikiLeaks published the video, Manning sent an e-mail to his master sergeant, Paul Adkins, saying he was suffering from gender identity disorder and attaching a photograph of himself dressed as a woman. Captain Steven Lim, Manning's commander, said he first saw the e-mail after Manning's arrest – when information about hormone replacement therapy was found in his room in Baghdad – and learned that Manning had been calling himself Breanna.[26] Manning told Lamo that his commander had found out about the gender issue before his arrest, after looking at his medical files at the beginning of May. He said he had set up Twitter and YouTube accounts in Breanna's name to give her a digital presence, writing in the Lamo chat: "i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me ... plastered all over the world press ... as [a] boy ... the CPU is not made for this motherboard ..."[27]

    On April 30 he posted on Facebook that he was utterly lost, and over the next few days that "Bradley Manning is not a piece of equipment," that he was "beyond frustrated," and "livid" after being "lectured by ex-boyfriend despite months of relationship ambiguity ..." On May 7 he seemed to spiral out of control. According to army witnesses, he was found curled into a fetal position in a storage cupboard, with a knife at his feet, and had cut the words "I want" into a vinyl chair. A few hours later he had an altercation with a female intelligence analyst, Specialist Jihrleah Showman, during which he punched her in the face. The brigade psychiatrist recommended a discharge, referring to an "occupational problem and adjustment disorder." His master sergeant removed the bolt from his weapon, and he was sent to work in the supply office, though at this point his security clearance remained in place. He was demoted from Specialist to Private First Class just two days before his arrest on May 26.[28]

    Ellen Nakashima writes that, on May 9, Manning contacted Jonathan Odell, a gay American novelist in Minneapolis, via Facebook, leaving a message that he wanted to speak to him in confidence; he said he had been involved in some "very high-profile events, albeit as a nameless individual thus far." On May 19, according to army investigators, he e-mailed Eric Schmiedl, a mathematician he had met in Boston, and told him he had been the source of the "Collateral Murder" video. Two days later, he began the series of chats with Adrian Lamo that led to his arrest.[29]
    Wiki Link

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    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #279
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Ah! Wikipedia. Well that certainly settles it.

    I have read in the media that there were other reasons for his turning over the documents. After he 'lost his virginity' seeing US cowboys in action, and hearing their brutal and callous statements and laughter "That will teach them to bring their kids to a gunfight" he was immensely ashamed of the cause he was involved in.

    I know that as a former US Army member and US citizen, I too was ashamed of the actions and laughter of those soldiers.

    Because of that shame, and because he wanted to somehow possibly end such criminal behavior, he did what he did, same as Daniel Ellsberg decades before him.

    It is true that he is gay, it seems, but that was not his motivation for his actions. Unless, of course, one happens to place alot of faith in Wikipedia.

  10. #280
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    Re: Assange Speaks to UN

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Somebody else coined the phrase that 'war is hell', but it is certainly true. Yessir, it IS shocking, no doubt about it. The smell of human blood splattered inside a helicopter is a pretty SHOCKING experience. Disgusting too.

    Humans might be divided into 2 categories--those who love war, and those who love peace.

    If the shoe fits, wear it.
    The only way im ok with that is if the tax system has an avenue for peace and war. As it stands all of America, Christian (or whatever else they are) and loving and caring aside, give their worth to war. Well except for the bums running around with signs preaching stop the war. But even then they have to beg and then get taxed at your local 7-11.

    Give a viable avenue for peace through taxes (as in ZERO of the tax money under this option goes to anything war related) and then we can have a 2 way street instead.

    I think there should be an checkable option on your taxes that states "None of my taxes are allowed for offensive, non 50 state land defense war, military, kinetic strikes, espionage, anything hostile in any manner including proxy gifts"
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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