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America’s Dumbest War, Ever

Afghanistan
 
jonny5 said:
Thats not the only way. Our goal is to prevent Afghanistan from being used as a base for terrorists. Acomplishing that is as simple as building a base to protect our people, and then using it to launch attacks on any terrorists. What the Afghanis do beyond that is their problem. We dont have to build roads or make friends. We leave them alone, they leave us alone.
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I think we just need to keep the drones flying and the men that maintain them can stay safe at the base. No more going out in the population to be a target.
 
Dittohead not! said:
We had a victory in hand in Iraq? Really?

and, what were the criteria for that victory? How did we know we were about to win if there were no clear goals in that war?
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Yes. Really. Fortunately all is not yet lost. Saddam Hussein was deposed, tried, and executed. Violence was way down until we declared victory left in a substantial way.

Regime change was pretty clear. It worked in Iraq. It will work here.
 
Henry David said:
It took the Russians 8 or 9 years to realize they were not going to prevail in Afghanistan.

We Americans are much brighter than they, and know that we will prevail in 25 years. Simple, eh? :doh
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If we believe our goal is to dominate and pacify the people of Afghanistan as the Soviets tried to do then you would be right. If our goal is to prevent Al Qaeda and the Taliban from having a safe haven then you are wrong. We should stay there, killing terrorists for as long as it takes. I believe that will be at least the next fifty years.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Link please.
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I should tell you that I have been supporting the American forces fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We were never allowed to see the rules of engagement. We did not have a need to know. But we could tell the difference after the Obama Administration came to power.
 
Misterveritis said:
Do you think you can find official rules of engagement that are not classified? Provide a link. I am prepared to read them.
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That sounds like a non sequitur. I'm telling you flat out: I have no knowledge of any ROE that changed when Obama took over. And I'm certain I'm much closer to the situation than you are.

You could try to prove me wrong. Or I'll just have to be content with what I know. Neither bothers me much, but then I'm not an ideologue.
 
Misterveritis said:
Yes. Really. Fortunately all is not yet lost. Saddam Hussein was deposed, tried, and executed. Violence was way down until we declared victory left in a substantial way.

Regime change was pretty clear. It worked in Iraq. It will work here.
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So, you're in favor of a foreign military invading our country and hanging the president.

Which country do you favor to do this?
 
OldWorldOrder said:
That sounds like a non sequitur. I'm telling you flat out: I have no knowledge of any ROE that changed when Obama took over. And I'm certain I'm much closer to the situation than you are.

You could try to prove me wrong. Or I'll just have to be content with what I know. Neither bothers me much, but then I'm not an ideologue.
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It is possible you were in Iraq and in Afghanistan multiple times between 2005 and today. I cannot tell. I can tell you that my company had people with the troops in about 50 locations in both countries steadily. They live and work with the troops. They tell me that we seldom engage unless we have been fired upon and can positively determine upon whom we should return fire.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, you're in favor of a foreign military invading our country and hanging the president.

Which country do you favor to do this?
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We have a policy of regime change. The one term Marxist will be defeated in another month. It is possible this election to have a regime change.

He has committed crimes worthy of impeachment.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Oh, so you don't know.

That explains a lot.
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You could pay attention. Or maybe you cannot. The evidence is for the latter. Since you are sure the rules of engagement are unclassified and that you are completely sure they have not changed could you share them?

Let me see what I find in a search. Rules of engagement Iraq Hmmm. Secret. Who woulda thunk it.

Wikileaks has obtained the long kept secret Rules of Engagement (ROE) for U.S. troops in Iraq.​
Wikileaks has obtained the long kept secret Rules of Engagement (ROE) for U.S. troops in Iraq.
Secret. Hmmm.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/u...estion-about-rumsfeld-authorizing-war-crimes/
 
OldWorldOrder said:
That sounds like a non sequitur. I'm telling you flat out: I have no knowledge of any ROE that changed when Obama took over. And I'm certain I'm much closer to the situation than you are.

You could try to prove me wrong. Or I'll just have to be content with what I know. Neither bothers me much, but then I'm not an ideologue.
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You need not be an ideologue to be wrong. Clearly.
 
Don't have time to read every post. Seen a few really stupid answers. Going just by armed combat "wars", where the US was a volunteer participant, and it ain't close, the dumbest war was:

1) The Civil War. Completely avoidable by Lincoln.

Beyond that:

2) Vietnam. 58K Americans killed for nothing. A million or more Vietnamese. For nothing. Afghanistan and Iraq pale by those numbers.

3) The War of 1812. Pointless. Unnecessary. Nothing gained.

Afghanistan and Iraq are quite mild compared to the above debacles. <<<<<< but they are stupid too. Bring our boys and girls home.

OK, now most justified wars ever.

1) The Revolutionary War.

2) WWII. Hitler was evil.

3) King Phillips War (more Americans per capita, though we were not "America" yet, lost their lives in this one than in any other war we have been in).

4) WWI. Germany was not evil then.

5) Rolling up the Indians. Sorry, but they were a far lesser culture, in the way of collective advancement of America. Unavoidable.
 
Misterveritis said:
It is possible you were in Iraq and in Afghanistan multiple times between 2005 and today. I cannot tell. I can tell you that my company had people with the troops in about 50 locations in both countries steadily. They live and work with the troops. They tell me that we seldom engage unless we have been fired upon and can positively determine upon whom we should return fire.
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Yeah, that never changed.
 
Misterveritis said:
You could pay attention. Or maybe you cannot. The evidence is for the latter. Since you are sure the rules of engagement are unclassified and that you are completely sure they have not changed could you share them?

Let me see what I find in a search. Rules of engagement Iraq Hmmm. Secret. Who woulda thunk it.

Wikileaks has obtained the long kept secret Rules of Engagement (ROE) for U.S. troops in Iraq.​
Wikileaks has obtained the long kept secret Rules of Engagement (ROE) for U.S. troops in Iraq.

Secret. Hmmm.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/u...estion-about-rumsfeld-authorizing-war-crimes/
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Oh, so you don't know. That explains a lot.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Oh, so you don't know. That explains a lot.
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Weren't you the one who was sure the rules of engagement were not classified? Based on my twenty years in the Army I was sure they were. I just showed you they are secret. And you naturally responded that I don't know. Many of the people I work with are former military officers and senior NCOs. We can see the change even if we are not given access to the actual rules of engagement.

Thanks for playing. On to the next thing.
 
Misterveritis said:
We have a policy of regime change. The one term Marxist will be defeated in another month. It is possible this election to have a regime change.

He has committed crimes worthy of impeachment.
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You don't change the regime in this country without changing the Congress as well. Lots of luck with that one.

As for Romney, he has a good chance, but isn't a whole lot different from his intended predecessor.
 
I believe it has "only come to light" with left-wing wackos. Nearly everybody else understands that all major intelligence agencies believed the same things.
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rofl, theyre still telling lies to themselves about this???


The senior intelligence official responsible for Tony Blair's notorious dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction proposed using the document to mislead the public about the significance of Iraq's banned weapons.

Sir John Scarlett, who as head of the Joint Intelligence Committee was placed "in charge" of writing the September 2002 dossier, sent a memo to Blair's foreign affairs adviser referring to "the benefit of obscuring the fact that in terms of WMD Iraq is not that exceptional".

The memo, released under the Freedom of Information Act, has been described as one of the most significant documents on the dossier yet published.

Memo reveals intelligence chief's bid to fuel fears of Iraqi WMDs | UK news | The Observer

Despite warnings from the German Federal Intelligence Service questioning the authenticity of the claims, the US Government utilized them to build a rationale for military action in the lead up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, including in the 2003 State of the Union address, where President Bush said "we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs

Curveball's German intelligence handlers saw him as "crazy ... out of control", his friends called him a "congenital liar", and a US physician working for the Defense Department who travelled to Germany to take blood samples seeking to discover if Anthrax spores were present was stunned to find the defector had shown up for medical tests with a "blistering hangover",[19] and he "might be an alcoholic".[20]


Curveball (informant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Italy: We Warned U.S. On WMD Docs


Italian secret services warned the United States in January 2003 that a dossier about a purported Iraq-Niger uranium deal were fake, an Italian lawmaker said Thursday after a briefing by an Italian intelligence chief.

Italy: We Warned U.S. On WMD Docs - CBS News

European and French intelligence reports

French intelligence informed the United States a year before President Bush's State of the Union address that the allegation could not be supported with hard evidence.[9]

wiki
 
Misterveritis said:
Weren't you the one who was sure the rules of engagement were not classified? Based on my twenty years in the Army I was sure they were. I just showed you they are secret. And you naturally responded that I don't know. Many of the people I work with are former military officers and senior NCOs. We can see the change even if we are not given access to the actual rules of engagement.

Thanks for playing. On to the next thing.
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Uhh..no, that wasn't me. I was the guy that asked you if you knew that any changed and you admitted that you didn't know and it was just a vibe you got. That's me. That guy. Hiiiii!

I'm also the guy that rocks multiple SIPRnet accounts (because you know that every organization/location has their own account set up right?), so plain ol SECRET things aren't a huge obstacle. I've seen lots of ROEs. I've seen lots of them change. I've never seen or even heard of them changing because of Obama taking over, you half term Whig, and I'm glad you admitted you hadn't either. That's refreshing, thanks.
 
Probably 100 years, because the Global War On Terror is the best perpetual futility the Pentagon has ever discovered.

I wonder if you have ever been a part of an army of occupation in a land and culture that does not like invading armies?

I have. It's a fool's mission.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You don't change the regime in this country without changing the Congress as well. Lots of luck with that one.

As for Romney, he has a good chance, but isn't a whole lot different from his intended predecessor.
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It is an excellent point. We will need to change the majority in the Senate from Democrat to Republican and retain the House.

Thanks for the nice wish. If my luck holds we have a slim chance of retaining a nation that can once again return to prosperity with less danger of the loss of our liberty.
 
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