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Thread: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

  1. #41
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I see the SF/CIA/Millions in bribery money/precision munitions/B52 carpet bombing raids as the only quick strike the US was capable of and BushII was not a patient man.
    He couldn't be patient. Al Qaeda needed to know that we could strike back hard and fast. There were no B52 carpet bombings either. Carpet bombing implies that they simply flattened massive areas, which wasn't the case. The B52's were mainly used to hit mountain passes that Al Qaeda was using for exfil routes. I still contend that President Bush's reaction was the best choice he could make, not the only one he could make. He could have pulled a Clinton and Tomahawk missiled them to death. That would have been the safest route to go both politically and for service members. He could have just bombed them. Which wouldn't have been as safe but would've been a little stronger reaction. He could have sent massive amounts of troops in. Which would have been the strongest reaction but the most dangerous. He could have done nothing. Which was a losing strategy all around. Instead, he went the unconventional route. It was bold and original. It had never been done before on that scale. And it worked beautifully.
    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The problem with the plan is so much hinged on bribed warlords staying bribed and in a land more noted for double crosses than loyalty to outsiders the real prizes in the secret squirrel operation just walked out the side door, right past the bribed warlords.
    Bribed warlords are cheaper than brigade upon brigade of conventional forces, you get more bang for your buck, who cares if bribed warlords and their "troops" die, and those citizens of Afghanistan in the Northern Allianace had to deal with the repercussions of their actions instead of just blame the inevitable insurgency on the white devil's aka Americans. That's the beauty of it. We go in, we stir up trouble in Al Qaeda's back yard, turn the people against them, then ride off in the sunset. At least, that's what initially happened. In addition, losing OBL wasn't the worst thing that could happen. We disturbed the ant hill. We took away their sanctuary and turned citizens against them. That was the whole point. OBL was a figurehead at that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Staying but at such low troop levels while the bulk of deployable combat forces were bombarded with candies and flowers in Iraq was a fatal flaw in the Afghanistan Operations set a cancer loose as we tried our hand once more at-

    Nation Building
    Democracy Building
    Equal Rights for Women
    those tasks grew out of a sense of frustration because the leaders of al-Queera and the taliwhackers slipped away.

    We shouldn't have tried to change Afghanistan.
    All of this, minus the last sentence (which I agree with btw), are incomprehensible. Please make your point in a clearer manner.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #42
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Serious Question: What year to do you believe there will be no more wars? 3012, 4012, 10,012? Will the human race eventually cease making weapons? Will we ever, ever trust all other countries or will history continue to read of wars?
    no
    ten characters
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  3. #43
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    You didnt answer any of the questions. Other than the obvious, why arent liberals protesting the war?
    I live rural and there is little, if any, protest activity in this area. Protest will show up at the ballot box in the form of Green Party votes. That is about the only option that I know of. The Occupy protests can be construed to be a protest against the largest warmongers because they are also the largest profiteers from ongoing military actions. Occupy is protest against the status quo of current events, inclucing wars. Just my opinion.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Michael Yon should have given the 'author' of the letter a little backround... a bn unit designation at the very least...

    he claims he authenticated the letter but given his personal bias toward 'the brass' and political leaders I would want more than his say-so.

    Too much like the World Nutt Dully.

    the B52s carpet bombed the Massif positions, not just passes but an entire ridge line- very impressive BTW. Classic shock and awe, classic example of showing your 'allies' you mean bidnizz.

    The 'success' is subjective. The Taliban still run the country, just not from Kabul. The puppet government doesn't control much outside of Kabul. al-Queera wasn't crushed by chasing them into Pakistan, it was crushed by ending the free flow of money around the world and ferreting out the real operatives OUTSIDE of Afghanistan. Using the tribal regions of Pakistan to train terrorists and insurgent fighters differs little from the mountain areas of Tora Bora.

    The 'success' of a bribe and bomb campaign lasts only as long as the bribes continue. Allowing Osama to walk out of Tora Bora was an abject failure, you can't dress that pig up and expect it to dance.

    President BushII shifting so much of our assets to focus on Iraq, from troops to intel agents robbed us of a good chance to ferret Osama out right after the 'invasion'.

    The candies and flowers refers to the way the neocons insisted our troops would be greeted in Iraq... we both know that was a lie.

    President BushII was left with an empty victory... after all his daid or alife drawling he doesn't tack Osama's head to the barn door. So he turned to another 'goal'-

    modernize Afghanistan so it would never harbor religious extremists again... he missed the history lesson where a very secular Shah of Iran attempted that and the backlash was the current religious extremists we all love to hate.

    There is a big difference between doing something fast and doing something right. Don't confuse your enemy going to ground as them giving up- they just simply know time, terrain and temperament are on their side.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I live rural and there is little, if any, protest activity in this area. Protest will show up at the ballot box in the form of Green Party votes. That is about the only option that I know of. The Occupy protests can be construed to be a protest against the largest warmongers because they are also the largest profiteers from ongoing military actions. Occupy is protest against the status quo of current events, inclucing wars. Just my opinion.
    No, theyre specifically against wall street. Wheres code pink?

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    There was no reason ever to try to nation-build there. It was silly to try, motivated by populism (the root of most dumbass decisions), and has just snowballed. Leave Americans in Bagram and use JSOC and UAVs to kill people as necessary when they get uppity.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon
    WW2 was necessary on our part, evil on Germany and Japan's part. If you think all wars can be avoided you are dumb.
    If you think war solves anything, you are dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm
    The war on education?
    The conglomeration of mini-wars on such things as illiteracy and such.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    If you think war solves anything, you are dumb.
    In Iraq, it solved genocide, 17 UN violations, sanctions, dictatorship and such. At least, thus far. Look what happened to Japan after they got bombed free. And Germany...

    All we are saaaying, is give war a chance.


    The conglomeration of mini-wars on such things as illiteracy and such.
    Illiteracy (and unspecified stuff) is the war on education? Who is promoting illiteracy?

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes thats what "Obama wants" (Hackery at its best here)


    But no this war was dumb a very long time ago. The last war that we got involved in that "wasnt dumb" would have to be WW2.
    Yeah, it made way more sense to let things get blown so far out of control that we fought a world war, lost 400,000 Americans lives and nearly banktrupted the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    There is little difference from either party when it comes to invading sovereign nations ... their rhetoric falls on deaf ears when Americans know for a fact these political parties are only serving the interests of multinationals Exxon, Haliburton, etc., corporations that owe allegiance to no country whatsoever.

    The American news media censor the untold human death toll and suffering of injured, except perhaps as a footnote years down the road, or as a purely acedemic excercise used to justify future conflicts. Look at how media outlets lie endlessly saying Bush killed 40,000 civillians in Iraq so as to paint the war a success.

    "Like former President George W. Bush, Mr. Obama said it could be in the interests of the United States to exercise the military power that it alone possesses in the advancement of freedom. But far more than Mr. Bush, Mr. Obama stressed the need to use that power in the context of multilateralism and cooperation."

    BUSH: “Our country has accepted obligations that are difficult to fulfill, and would be dishonorable to abandon. Yet because we have acted in the great liberating tradition of this nation, tens of millions have achieved their freedom. And as hope kindles hope, millions more will find it.”

    OBAMA: “For generations, the United States of America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security and as an advocate for human freedom. Mindful of the risks and costs of military action, we are naturally reluctant to use force to solve the world’s many challenges. But when our interests and values are at stake, we have a responsibility to act.”





    Echoes of Bush in Obama’s Libya Speech

    Echoes of Bush in Obama's Libya Speech - NYTimes.com

    Obama Marks End of U.S. Combat Mission in Iraq, Salutes Bush

    Obama Marks End of U.S. Combat Mission in Iraq, Salutes Bush | Fox News
    __________________________________________________ _____
    "The press is the hired agent of a moneyed system, set up for no other reason than to tell us lies where their interests are concerned." — Henry Adams

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