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Thread: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Glad to see he has been at least somewhat awakened. Though his claim that he cares not whether they stay or leave is a bit disturbing. The entire Middle Eastern campaign has been been a disaster and a disgrace since WWII.



    I see the wars on drugs, poverty, education, and the like as visible arms of an undeclared War on Freedom. Every one of these so-called wars is nothing more than a battle against allowing people to do as they damn well please.



    Yes. (Though "dumb" isn't that great of an adjective for war.)
    WW2 was necessary on our part, evil on Germany and Japan's part. If you think all wars can be avoided you are dumb.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    I see the wars on drugs, poverty, education, and the like as visible arms of an undeclared War on Freedom. Every one of these so-called wars is nothing more than a battle against allowing people to do as they damn well please.
    The war on education?

  3. #33
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    I have a very different view than most of you. The initial incursion and subsequent operation in Afghanistan involving SF, Delta, and CIA paramilitary was a master stroke. President Bush did something that, IMO, no President outside of JFK would do. He allowed our uncoventional forces to actually control an Area of Operations and execute missions at their whim inside of it. The result was the total routing of the Taliban with fewer than 800 ground troops and minimal air support. This resulted in the forming of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. After that, the mistakes began, albeit not on a large scale. President Bush committed conventional troops into an area that didn't need them. Special Ops troops are trained to be sensitive to other cultures, speak their language, and compromise the speed at which they can operate in order to "involve" the local troops. Conventional troops are not. They are trained to accomplish a mission and move aside anything that holds them back from that. Involving conventional troops was the mistake. However, unlike President Obama, I believe President Bush understood that. We forget that there was a 2 year period between the invasion of Afghan to the invasion of Iraq. I believe President Bush understood the black hole that Afghanistan could become and didn't want to committ a massive amount of troops to it. President Obama does not know this. He wanted his "own" war. He thought, as is typical of him, that he knew better. That he could do what NO country has ever done. Control Afghanistan. Well, he's wrong. Afghanistan did not begin as "America's Dumbest War, Ever". It could have been one of the greatest. It could have been a perfect example of modern warfare and the execution of it. What it turned in to is a huge mine is bigger than yours/we want to leave on our terms/lets wait until the election is over/we don't want to leave with egg on our face war. To be clear, President Bush did increase troop levels there to 20,000 by the end of his presidency. However, President Obama upped it to the 60-70K range. A huge commitment. IMO, President Bush should have pulled our troops as soon as the Northern Alliance established itself. Leaving some special ops troops on the ground to advise them. And that's it.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    I see the SF/CIA/Millions in bribery money/precision munitions/B52 carpet bombing raids as the only quick strike the US was capable of and BushII was not a patient man.

    The problem with the plan is so much hinged on bribed warlords staying bribed and in a land more noted for double crosses than loyalty to outsiders the real prizes in the secret squirrel operation just walked out the side door, right past the bribed warlords.

    Staying but at such low troop levels while the bulk of deployable combat forces were bombarded with candies and flowers in Iraq was a fatal flaw in the Afghanistan Operations set a cancer loose as we tried our hand once more at-

    Nation Building
    Democracy Building
    Equal Rights for Women
    those tasks grew out of a sense of frustration because the leaders of al-Queera and the taliwhackers slipped away.

    We shouldn't have tried to change Afghanistan.

    Now a thought on the OP- highly suspect website with no substantiation, more rant/whine about the ROE, smeared with a good dose of lamestream media refusal to tell the truth... even Fox I guess....

    Doesn't pass the smell test, will agree with one thing, we never were going to fix Afghanistan, we have over stayed-

    But Afghanistan is to President Obama as Vietnam was to President Nixon

    Vietnam was to President Johnson as Afghanistan is to President BushII.

    People will remember who got us into the mess and who got us out... not much past that.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    I agree that all wars are probably stupid but this one is really up there. We went over there with a club the size of Texas to look for an ant hill. We did not know the culture, language or the terrain. the soviets went to and look what happened to them.
    Agreed! We could have gone over with a little can of RAID instead of a Bulldozer. See what happens when you silence your critics!

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Serious Question: What year to do you believe there will be no more wars? 3012, 4012, 10,012? Will the human race eventually cease making weapons? Will we ever, ever trust all other countries or will history continue to read of wars?
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    The US has never fought a morally, legally or ethically just war since WW2 ended.

    In fact the US has attacked 37 nations since WW2 that has resulted in approximately 23 million civilian death.

    Dumb isn't the word for these war crimes and corporately fascist atrocities

  8. #38
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Serious Question: What year to do you believe there will be no more wars? 3012, 4012, 10,012? Will the human race eventually cease making weapons? Will we ever, ever trust all other countries or will history continue to read of wars?
    NEVER Man is an animal and has yet to learn how to control his basic instincts and emotions. Case in point - Why do we give a **** about countries? because we are territorial we live in social groups and are most comfortable there. We defend that territory and any percieved Home Range that goes along with it. If we were able to put these type emotions and instincts aside (which we cannot) our intellect would tell us that we get more done and are more productive as a single group rather than an assortment of warring factions.


    The two most basic emotions in man are love and hate. We haven't quite gotten love down yet but we have sure as hell aced the hate part.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    For me, the war in Afghanistan never made any sense after OBL was bagged. No Nation has ever defeated Afghanistan and I don't think we will. I think the best way we can help the poor citizens of Afghanistan is to get out. Drop some rice and beans on them instead of bombs and actually investigate where the opium goes. Do the words oxycontin and hydocodone strike any responsive chords?
    You didnt answer any of the questions. Other than the obvious, why arent liberals protesting the war?

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I see the SF/CIA/Millions in bribery money/precision munitions/B52 carpet bombing raids as the only quick strike the US was capable of and BushII was not a patient man.

    The problem with the plan is so much hinged on bribed warlords staying bribed and in a land more noted for double crosses than loyalty to outsiders the real prizes in the secret squirrel operation just walked out the side door, right past the bribed warlords.

    Staying but at such low troop levels while the bulk of deployable combat forces were bombarded with candies and flowers in Iraq was a fatal flaw in the Afghanistan Operations set a cancer loose as we tried our hand once more at-

    Nation Building
    Democracy Building
    Equal Rights for Women
    those tasks grew out of a sense of frustration because the leaders of al-Queera and the taliwhackers slipped away.

    We shouldn't have tried to change Afghanistan.

    Now a thought on the OP- highly suspect website with no substantiation, more rant/whine about the ROE, smeared with a good dose of lamestream media refusal to tell the truth... even Fox I guess....

    Doesn't pass the smell test, will agree with one thing, we never were going to fix Afghanistan, we have over stayed-

    But Afghanistan is to President Obama as Vietnam was to President Nixon

    Vietnam was to President Johnson as Afghanistan is to President BushII.

    People will remember who got us into the mess and who got us out... not much past that.
    Regading the OP, I only linked it as the source of the letter. Theres no reason to doubt its authenticity. Michael Yon has been embeding in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan for the last decade. He is a well known and respected military blogger.

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