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Thread: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Little analysis has taken place among whom? *In the US government, Afghanistan and Pakistan are seen as inseparable. *It's why most places don't have an Afghan shop or a Pakistan shop, they're usually called AFPAK shops.
    Not all Afghani's are Pashtuns, it's actually pretty ignorant that you would group them all in like that.

    As I was saying the US has made little analysis of Pakistan.

    They dominate the South:
    http://www.nps.edu/Programs/CCS/Docs...ribalmap07.pdf

    This is a better tribal map:
    BBC News | In Depth | War on Terror | Key Maps

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Joechilli View Post
    Not all Afghani's are Pashtuns, it's actually pretty ignorant that you would group them all in like that.
    No one did that. It's actually pretty ignorant that you'd think someone did.

    As I was saying the US has made little analysis of Pakistan.
    And I was telling you that you're wrong.
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The huge presence of Oxycontin and Hydrocodone indicates to me that Afghanistan and free market capitalism are hand in hand. Just because it is illegal doesn't mean it isn't done. Opium production went from approximately 290 tons per annum to over 7000 tons per annum under USA stewardship. The Media always says that the Talibun are growing the opium, but there was only 290 tons production when they were in control. You will recall that no bombs ever touched the well known opium warehouse near either Khost or Kandahar ( I don't remember exactly which of the two). I would expect that production to drop if the Taliban ever get influence in Kabul politics. My comment is just indicating that there is a product to base the economy on. Why hasn't the USA stopped this production. I would guess that we must be complicit and with a willing accomplice named Karzai.
    Great post!

    I can remember when Colin Powell hand delivered a check from the federal government for about $43 million. It was in gratitude for their spirited cooperation in the War On Drugs, we were told.

    I had heard that through strict application of Sharia law, they had virtually eliminated poppy production in the country. And got a check from the US for it.

    Anyway, I wonder how old that 290 figure was you use above?

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No one did that. It's actually pretty ignorant that you'd think someone did.



    And I was telling you that you're wrong.
    Thanks OldWorldOrder,

    AFPAK, great use of initials

    Where's all the masterful US intel that's gonna win this war?

    Hearts and minds? Popular support? Exit strategy? A capable ANA and police force?
    2014 will be a frightening year.

    BBC News - Will Afghan Koran row prove Nato's tipping point?

    BBC News - Why Taliban are so strong in Afghanistan

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Joechilli View Post
    Thanks OldWorldOrder,

    AFPAK, great use of initials

    Where's all the masterful US intel that's gonna win this war?

    Hearts and minds? Popular support? Exit strategy? A capable ANA and police force?
    2014 will be a frightening year.

    BBC News - Will Afghan Koran row prove Nato's tipping point?

    BBC News - Why Taliban are so strong in Afghanistan
    What? Did that make sense when you typed it?
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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Great post!

    I can remember when Colin Powell hand delivered a check from the federal government for about $43 million. It was in gratitude for their spirited cooperation in the War On Drugs, we were told.

    I had heard that through strict application of Sharia law, they had virtually eliminated poppy production in the country. And got a check from the US for it.

    Anyway, I wonder how old that 290 figure was you use above?
    CNN.com - U.S. : Afghan poppy production doubles - Nov. 28, 2003

    "Poppy cultivation in Afghanistan doubled between 2002 and 2003 to a level 36 times higher than in the last year of rule by the Taliban, according to White House figures released Friday.

    The area planted with poppies, used to make heroin and morphine, was 152,000 acres in 2003, compared with 76,900 acres in 2002 and 4,210 acres in 2001, the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy said in a statement"

    If one does the math on 2001 and 4,210 acres and 2003 and 152,000 acres, the actual figure may be less than the 290 tons. I did remember reading the 290 ton figure but couldn't remember the original link. This one supports that figure however.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The huge presence of Oxycontin and Hydrocodone indicates to me that Afghanistan and free market capitalism are hand in hand. Just because it is illegal doesn't mean it isn't done. Opium production went from approximately 290 tons per annum to over 7000 tons per annum under USA stewardship. The Media always says that the Talibun are growing the opium, but there was only 290 tons production when they were in control. You will recall that no bombs ever touched the well known opium warehouse near either Khost or Kandahar ( I don't remember exactly which of the two). I would expect that production to drop if the Taliban ever get influence in Kabul politics. My comment is just indicating that there is a product to base the economy on. Why hasn't the USA stopped this production. I would guess that we must be complicit and with a willing accomplice named Karzai.

    This is almost entirely irrelevant to my post.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    This is almost entirely irrelevant to my post.
    "America's dumbest war?" Would a war that increases opium production be a smart war? On one hand we have a war on drugs and on the other we seem to be complicit in the production of drugs. Have I missed something? If it doesn't highlight the dumbness of this war, what does?

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Joechilli View Post
    I understand you now,
    Let us test your understanding.
    Your actually very pro-American
    True.

    but in a way that's particularly nasty if not imperialist.
    Hmmm. Explain please.

    You don't see that setting an example as being a tyrant has it's counter effects.
    What are your examples of the US acting as "a tyrant"?
    You probably also don't realise that most of the US is an undesirable crime ridden sh#thole.
    True. I have lived all over the world and in many of the states. Everywhere I have been has been okay. And Huntsville, is the best place I have been.

    First of all the UK Govt will never LIE for you like that again. You used them for the UN vote, they will never risk such worldwide unpopularity again for nothing in return unless there totally stupid.
    Why do you have such a low opinion of the UK? Are you claiming that hindsight is better that foresight? Then we agree. If you are claiming that the UK lied for the US then we disagree.

    In your thinking Deception is really another word for being treacherous.
    All of warfare is based on deception.
    My personal preference is to deceive the enemy into failure instead of killing him. We use deception to cause an enemy to put his forces in places where we do not intend to act so we can decisively defeat him where we do attack. Successful deceptions usually save many lives.

    You may love the short term benefits but every thief has it's day.
    This is the thought of an amateur.

    Your analysis of long term goals I feel lacks.
    In what way? Is it because you disagree? That does not mean my analysis is the problem. It just means you disagree.
    Toppling Hussein was the good thing
    Can we get an "Amen" Brothers and Sisters?
    the rest of the conflict was simply not worth it.
    It is too soon to tell. Long term is just that, long term. It is not a year. It is not five years. Let us wait for twenty and then let's get back together and review the results.

    The same with Bin Laden, you should have left after the Northern Alliance had smacked the hell out of the Taliban. But no, let's stay 10 years to see ourselves decline. You do not understand the Afghani mentality in the slightest.
    What benefit would that have had?

    As my link earlier, the Iraq insurgency are killing still goes on just as it did. And so will the Taliban with or without you.
    Don't be shy. Make a point. Successful insurgencies often win in about five years. Failed insurgencies can take ten to fifteen years. Iraq is positioned to continue to do better and better year after year despite the homicide bombers.

    You seem to think 'forever' is the answer despite Iraq and Vietnam.
    True. If we want to defeat the insurgents and the terrorists. What lesson have you learned from Iraq? I am interested in what you think the lessons are from Viet-nam.
    You also don't get the idea that these terrorists are mainly based in Pakistan. You're not fighting a country anymore, your fighting a dispersed idea, a safe haven is in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and elsewhere. Unless your going to throw down 4-5 front-lines which you can't afford in any case your proposition is futile.
    This is nonsense. We can prevent Afghanistan from being used by terrorists. And at the same time we can attack terrorists everywhere else they pop up. Coincidentally we continue to kill terrorists in many countries.

    You need to move with the action, not put down a forever marker.
    A fool or an amateur announces to friend and enemy alike a departure date. Announced departure dates dispirit our friends and allies. It also increases the martial ardor of our enemies.

    And FYI the Russians weren't pussies it was and has always been a futile war.
    Do you believe that we and the Soviet Union have the same goal? I observed the Soviet war against the people of Afghanistan as an active duty intelligence officer. They had the wrong goals, the wrong strategy, and even the wrong tactics.

    You have become the Redcoats marching out from Boston and your too stubborn to see it.
    LOL. Okay. I shall need more information before I can respond to this odd statement.

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    Re: America’s Dumbest War, Ever

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You're the one that made the claim. Do you need to sit down or something? You can't even keep your own fabrications straight, you one term Marxist.
    So you are not the one who claimed near perfect knowledge of our rules of engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan? LOL. Uh-huh.

    There you go again.

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